Kyle Arrington | Intercepted Tom Brady Day 1 in the NFL... As an Undrafted Rookie

Kyle Arrington went undrafted out of Hofstra, got cut by two teams, and still became a Super Bowl champion and the NFL's co-leader in interceptions in 2011. In this episode of the Intangible Podcast, Kyle sits down with Chris Spencer to break down the mindset that took him from practice squad to starting cornerback for Bill Belichick's Patriots, including the story of intercepting Tom Brady in his very first practice with Randy Moss lined up across from him. Kyle gets real about growing up with almost no self-confidence, the imposter syndrome he felt sitting in a room full of Hall of Famers as a rookie, and why going to therapy every week has been one of the biggest factors in his success on and off the field. He also talks about building his nonprofit the Ball Foundation, writing his children's book Piece It Together, and the intangibles that carried him through eight seasons in the league. If you are an athlete chasing a dream that feels far away, a parent trying to help your kid build real confidence, or someone who wants to understand what actually separates the players who make it from the ones who do not, this conversation is for you. Subscribe to the Intangible Podcast for more conversations with elite athletes and coaches about the mental side of competing at the highest level.

👉 Follow the Intangible Podcast for more stories of grit, resilience, and peak performance:

 Instagram: @Intangible_Podcast
YouTube: Intangible Pod

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

All right, welcome back to the Tensor Podcast. I'm excited to have a conversation with my guy Kyle Ariton, man, a uh former NFL corner, eight-year NFL career Super Bowl champion with the New England Patriots. Um led the NFL in interceptions, 2011 with seven interceptions. Um he went from being a dev player to being a starting corner on a championship team. Built his career through instincts, preparation, and the next man up mentality. Played in one of the most dynamic systems in the NFL uh under Bill Belichick. Kyle, welcome to the Enchanted Podcast, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Yes, sir. No, I appreciate you having me. Delighted, delighted.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, I want to I want to start at the top, man. You um you went from being undrafted to leading the league in interception. You know, when did that when did that moment you know really bubble up for you that it was this was actually real? This this has happened. I put this work in and now I'm sitting here and I'm in the moment where I'm leading the league in interception, man. It had to be an unbelievable feeling.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

I guess I did do that, didn't I? Um, but uh truth be told, man, it's still surreal to this day, man. I'm just a kid, like I like to say, I'm just a kid out of acokee, man. And so uh you you think you think Hofra was a tongue twister, right? You know, it's probably about acokee. People like, what, where? And uh, you know, just uh uh uh again, so one of those kids that just uh flew flew under the radar. Um still low-key to this day. Um like to kind of hang my hat on. And uh yeah, man, just always was one of those kids who grew up to be one of those persons where I just wanted all my my actions just to speak louder than my words. So what I was um what I was willing to do without the work I was willing to put in was always going to be what I was gonna get out of it. And so uh, so yeah, all we could really ask for is an opportunity. Um had the uh fortune, um, was fortunate to get that. Um but uh for the pro day and opportunity with, you know, things didn't quite work out and um in Philly or in Tampa, but New England kind of gave me a call game opportunity, and sometimes it's just I'm time to meet preparation too. You know, uh it comes down to systems, it comes down to um you know personnel, comes down to surroundings, all these things, right? Right, right. It all goes into the equation. And it just so um be the equation that that made the most sense and that worked out the best for me, you know, especially just going back talking about that 2011 season. And yeah, just just thinking about it, you know, leading the league and tying being up there and tying with the likes among Charles Woodson and Eric Weddle, you know, two uh two two great Hall of Fame, easy Hall of Famers, you know, right? So uh so yeah, being in that same um Pantheon, if you will, you know, that that that season, man. It was uh it was special. It was special.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Man, that's awesome. I mean, you talked about system just then, and you know, you were you know, you were in multiple systems that required you to be ready, you know, and if you're not ready, the next man's gonna be ready to play. And so how did you prepare yourself for those opportunities that you weren't sure if it was really gonna come?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Man, I I credit my family. I um my mom, my dad, sister, you know, they they they understood me. You know, I was a very uh uh O C D obsessed, obsessed kid up to grow into an obsessed person. But sometimes, you know, when you're passionate enough about something, you gotta, you gotta be obsessed, right? And they uh did everything that they could to put me in a position to be successful. And then even when I grow and evolve as a person and what my own family would eventually look like with my wife, my kids, you know, the same thing as far as them making that sacrifice and understanding how um how obsessed I had to be during the season, during the offseason. I mean, when it was an off-season, it really wasn't an off-season for me because I was always the kind of person who was like, you know, the grind. Yeah, the grind. It's all it's all it's all you know, you know, right? It's all I knew. And and if sometimes we like to also say as an undrafted free agent, you know, once undrafted, always undrafted in terms of you know, sometimes how they treat you, you know, your your your rope will never be as long, right? Yeah, as uh as a drafted guy or first rounder guy, anything like that. And so, yeah, man, you always gotta you know go go into it with that kind of mindset and just um yeah, just just just continue to outwork. He said, outwork the next man. But once you really get into a uh uh a place and I and I had to grow and and learn to uh to to get into that, adopt that kind of mindset where once you stop competing against everybody else and really start competing against yourself, like just trying to be better today than you were yesterday. Man, that's that's that's that's the sweet spot.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Your number get caught in an environment like New England, um, you know, you were ready for it. So what in that moment, what what what was the what mattered the most for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Oh in that moment, I tell you what, man, I had a um I had a first day among all first when it comes to uh first time impressions on the job. And so they when I tell you they threw me in the fire, uh as uh, you know, we get all the like the warm-up stuff, individual drills out the way, we go right in and into one-on-ones. So as a as a cornerback, you know, going up and doing one-on-one drill against the receiver. So uh the first time I, you know, walk up and and my first ever like dress rehearsal in front of the entire organization, right? There's none other than, guess who's that quarterback? Tom Brady. Tom Brady. And then, you know, and guess guess who we have walking up as a as a receiver? None other than Randy Moss. Randy Moss. And so uh and I told myself in that moment, same thing I told myself like the night before, man, going to bed about with you know with this opportunity. Just a kid again coming up from um uh Hoffrey University, uh undrafted, one double-A school, small school, who doesn't even have a program anymore. And it's just um, you know, you you you belong here, you put in the work here, and every everything that you did to get up to this point, you earn. Like nothing was ever given to you. So like like this, this is your moment. So seize it. And if if you're gonna go down, you better go down swinging. Right. And so uh, so yeah, it and so Randy had ran a um he ran a skinny post, and I I was able to jump in front of it and break it up. Actually, I thought I could, I could have intercepted the ball, truth be told, but I did break up that pass. And that moment, man, that was just uh all the confidence that I needed, and it gave me and took me into the rest of my practice. I actually picked off Tom during um during team drills. And so uh so yeah, that was that was crazy. So, like I said, first thing on the job picking off Tom Brady. And uh, if you can imagine, I'm getting into the car after practice, calling everybody named Mama, anybody I didn't know if I was gonna make a crowd of this thing. Like I said, I picked off Tom Brady. That was gonna be my thing, you know, say nothing else, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

But you can now you can now you can now rest and say, man, I I was one of the guys that picked off Tom Brady. You know, it's not very many of them.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Game practice, whatever it was, I can say, hey, I was I was gonna hang my hat on that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, I I want to go back to your you know upbringing, man, growing up and you know, building this kind of confidence to go in the to get to the league. Um, you know, where did it all start? You know, what was your home life like, family life, you know, growing up, and and and you know, and and what was those things that really shape you to say that I'm I'm confident in myself to go out here and compete at a high level?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Um man, I think that's an operative word right there. You just touched on confidence. I I had, man, I had the complete antithesis of it. I had zero, man. I was uh uh a kid filled with a lot of self-doubt, self-conscious, um, just insecurities. Like I said, I wasn't I was no prodigy when it came to football. So I wasn't this natural athlete. I wasn't I wasn't the most coordinated kid either. And so, I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't the most popular and anything like that in that regard. And so, but um, and the thing is that when I go back and talk to kids all the time now, I I tell them it's you know, it's not won't always be the most talented kids that make it in person that making it in life, but you could bet your bottom dollar is definitely gonna be the most resilient. And so if I had anything, if I had any marketable skill set, would be my drive, would be my hunger, would be like I just wanted it. And again, I have wonderful, you know, wonderful of the best parents a kid can ever ask for. Uh, who again, like whatever, no, I was a kid, didn't really ask so much, but again, whatever, you know, me and my sister we needed, they they they made sure we had. And so uh uh just just knowing those opportunities, those resources that they were there, right? And and I'd be naive to think that you know all households aren't built like that, right? And so so again, just going back to understanding how how fortunate I was as a kid to have that type of um security, right? Uh with within my home. But uh so I always kind of I always kind of looked at it like, man, that's just that's a debt that you really can't ever repay as a kid. Like as a parent now, just knowing and understanding all that you know you do for your family. And so I was like, man, but at least at least a good place to start for me would be not having my parents pay for college. So I was just determined to get a scholarship. So man, once I thought football could be that vehicle, I only played one one year, one season of RC football in high school. And so I was like, but I when I go into my uh my senior year as a junior, I said when I when I put all my eggs in one basket, and I said this was gonna be it, plan A, and plan and I had a plan A to plan B. So and plan B was to ensure the plan A worked.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

And that that that was it, man.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Like I had I got bigger, I got fast, I got stronger, all natural too. Because back then, you know, when when I was uh in high school, like career team was the thing. And I was like, that wasn't, that just didn't like flow with my system, let's just say. And so yeah, when I tell you it's all natural, all just um all sweat equity, and and no one did understand it, like, hey, like what I do with my team, with my coaches, that's just the bare minimum. Because I'm looking at it like, man, you you are who you are when no one is looking. And like when no one was looking, like I'm getting better. Like I put it. If it's like nine, ten in the morning or something like, you know, 11 people getting ready for bed, I'm I'm running around my neighborhood. I'm running sprints. Sometimes I would going back to the word being obsessed with right with the dream, with the passion, I I would be restless. So it'd be like two, three in the morning. If I remember one night it was raining outside, I was like, good, you know, because that's just just that again goes back to that hunger, how much I wanted. I'm still out there in the rain, running, running, running around my neighborhood, come back on my on my block, running, running sprints, just because I knew my opponent wasn't. I knew nobody else wasn't. And you know, however, you got to get that edge, you know, sometimes, yes, the the physical benefits, but even the psychological too.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Right. Well, and that's a question I have for you. You know, I've had parents reach out to me asking me, you know, that have kids that lacks that confidence, you know, really, you know, even the ones that are really talented uh lack confidence, you know. As a kid, when you look back on your you know, your childhood, you know, uh, and for any of the parents that are listening who as a kid that's struggling with confidence, you know, what what would you say to them and and and how you had to how you overcame that lack of confidence early on?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

I had uh I had a great support system. I had, again, just going back to my foundation, I had parents who loved me, believed in me, supported me, I had coaches, I had teachers, I had a community, right? And then, but just like any other relationship, it's a two-way street. So you got to do your part too. And my part was just knowing and understanding what like what I wanted out of this, out of this deal, going back to get a scholarship. I had to be a um, but I necessarily wasn't a freak of nature, I had to be a freak of nurture. And so that means I found myself in the weight room. Uh, when I say I found myself, like like almost a literally and metaphorically, so I found myself. And and I mean, yes, all the aesthetic stuff is cool, but you know, want to look good and things like that, but but but again, it really um gave me that uh that that self-confidence inward that I could exude outward, you know, just as far as like knowing that that just the reward is in the growth itself. Sometimes it's not always about the destination, this is just about the progress. And just seeing and and witnessing in real time like the work I was willing to put in and the results I was getting out in real time, man. That's just like that's it's it's it's it builds, like I said, that uh that self-confidence. And that is the um a lasting reward. And now we live in such a uh a time and society where it's crazy, man. You know, we get um, we try to find all this uh validation and external, external resources, external things like like social media and the forms of likes and followers and things like that. But that's not what's gonna give you like that lasting self, like say self-confidence, self-esteem, anything like that. So yeah, just just that that slow, that, that, that grind, the the things that you don't necessarily get instant gratification from, instant success from, but you gotta continually like work and work and work and work at, right? Uh scratch claw and fight for. And so that's that's the things that you, that that sense of accomplishment, that's what's gonna give you that lasting, so you know, self self-confidence, self-esteem, and all and all on all these all these things that uh you know that that you just want as a not only as a kid, but as a person.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Right, right. And so what I'm hearing is, you know, for parents that are listening is the first first is having your kid truly understand what they want to get out of it. Uh and once they understand what they what they want to get out of it, then you as a parent continue to encourage that so they can keep pulling it out of them. And even when you think they're not listening, they're listening. So you were listening to your parents that just kept, you know, feeding you the fuel that you needed to keep putting the work in and keep developing, and then that became a sense of self for you. Um and and it showed up, it started to show up when you started to see the results. And so um you you may be close to the results and you just haven't seen them yet, just keep going. And so uh so for parents who are who are out there listening, like you know, help your kid identify what they really want to get out of sports and and you know, and they may not have it all baked out early, but uh it's a starting point. So uh appreciate you for sharing that, my man.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Um, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

When you look at, you know, the the challenges, you know, early on, you know, especially in high school, you know, what was what was a challenge a challenge that you were facing that you knew you had to level up? You know, was it not being recruited? Was it, you know, you know, uh like you said, you had to put that the that sweat in, you know, putting weight on and all those different things. You know, what was that thing that that forced you to level up to get that? Um and I think I now remember you saying about getting that scholarship, maybe your biggest one.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Oh, adversity, man, is the first thing that comes to mind. And then uh it always comes in so many different forms and fashions. And uh I I know I kind of just vaguely said that I only played one year of RC football, and that was mainly due to the reason was I I separated my shoulder, dislocated separated my shoulder multiple times. Um when I first went out there, you know, tried to play football. So and I was just like, man, this thing just maybe just not for me. You know, so sometimes you know, football creates a lot of basketball players, right? But uh, but you know, I mean I just saw again how hard the uh the football coach was the football coach in my high school really went the bat for his kids, you know, got scouts to come out and see them and get attain scholarships. And and so uh I think on average, at least, you know, it's like 15 at that time, like 15 seniors would get scholarships per year, something something around that. For uh, you know, and that's that's that's those are high, high numbers and like I so again just going back to kind of putting all my eggs in one basket, and sometimes it's this uh um I don't know, physical trauma that uh that we gotta overcome, but even sometimes it's um psychological and emotional, right? And and and so with that, you know, you think about like separating the show. So I did what I had to do to get to get bigger or get faster or get stronger or be more durable and things like that. But also I had to, I don't really, really, really surrender, you know, because uh because I'm I'm a kid, I'm a person, I'm a who just very, very like OCD. I like I have to control everything. And not everything is always in our control. Like seldom, you know, do we have you know anything really in our control? And I had to uh really, really understand that and come to terms with that and just go out there and just know that um I did everything that I I could up to that point to even put my position myself in a position to be successful. And so yeah, uh, I mean, I faced um everything things like that over and over and over again, whether we were trying to get through that, get over that hurdle of uh being gun shy, you know, when it comes to contact, whether it was being being over, you know, overlooked and underestimated as far as uh coming out of um a high school, whether it was coming out of Hofstra. And and so uh, you know, being let go by Philly, being let go by Tampa, and you know, really making making a mark and making things work and stick in New England. Once again, it was nothing physically I could really do more at that point, and just mentally, you know, thinking to myself, like, man, like you know, you you already proven it. You you you belong here. You could play, you can play the big leagues. It's just you're just you it's really just you. You know, you're you you are holding yourself back, right? Oh, yeah. So sometimes it's um, it's it's no, it's it's things, it's things like that, man. Just um whether it be whether it be physical hurdles, whether it be mental hurdles, just gotta understand what um kind of obstacle you're facing.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah, man. Your story is making me think about like late bloomers, um, you know, guys who just you know, it takes time. Guys and gals who just take a little bit of time, they develop a little bit later, um, you know, which could be late bloomers or just slow builders, just slow building to get there. And so when you think about you came into came into the league, you wasn't a guy, you know, what did the league look like you early on, um look like for you early on as you was trying to get your feet set on?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

It was uh man, you you you really hit a uh a good a good thread right there because um when you talk about potential or you think about potential, you know, and we all have it, everybody has it. You know, some people show it early, you know, and then like you just said, some people, some some people are a little bit later in life. But uh potential is not necessarily one thing I learned about potential is that it's not necessarily the uh the peak of the heights you reach, but it's about how how far you're you've climbed or were willing to climb to get there. And so yes, about I I think of it in terms of distance travel at this point. And so yeah, I was willing to I was willing to go to hell and back if needed, you know, to really uh to get where uh where I wanted to go. And just so to but to answer your question, um man, things see, think just going again, just going back to things didn't really click and turn over for me mentally until I got to New England. Because even in Philly, man, when I was undrafted free agent, um with the camp in Philly, we have this thing called a leaderboard chart and uh in the beginning of a training camp. So it uh you know tracks all the you know interceptions, pass breakups, force fumbles, PBUs, uh hustle points, all these, all these metrics. And and you think about uh I'm I'm I'm going there, I'm I'm in that room with the likes of uh uh Hall of Famers like um Brian Dawkins, um uh Sante Samuel, Leto Shepherd, Sheldon Brown, you know, uh I got quick, you know, quitting some dogs, right? Some dogs in the room. And so my but my name after after training camp and training camp and preseason was done, my name was at the top of that list when it when it came to when it came to uh all the points being being tallied. And so the problem was I I wasn't necessarily having a bad preseason, but I wasn't showcasing the things I was doing in practice necessarily in the game, wasn't it? Translating the same. Because if you're a kid like me, you gotta constantly show up every single day to catch these coaches' eyes. And I just was not doing enough in the game as as opposed to how how I was doing in practice. And so uh, yeah, and then and again, so what again just go going back to holding myself back and understanding the kind of kid I was when in in in terms of like having that uh self, you know, self-confidence, sometimes confidence issues. It it no matter how old you may think you are or you get as an adult, sometimes it's rear is an ugly head, and you kind of have like this um imposter syndrome, if you will. And you think to so like, man, like you know, what am I what am I what am I doing here? You know, I I I you know I I I don't belong here. And uh, yeah, and and and but even with that, it becomes self-sabotaging. And so yeah, I understood I I did not want that to be my situation, one did not want that to be my story, and I had to just really let again going back to surrendering, let going all that, you know, uh possible, you know, fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear of dejection, you know, all these things. And like, man, like it's it's gonna be what it's gonna be. And if and it's gonna be anything, it's gonna be because I can I control it, right? Right, not not anything else. Like I said, not feet, not fear or any anything. And so, yeah, I know I'm going on these um long-winded at making detour.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

No, it's good. No, it's good, man, because that's you know, it it keeps leading me to my next question. Um, you know, because we as athletes, we don't want anybody to see us struggle. We don't want, we're not gonna let people in to see that. And so, you know, um, until we're confident to, you know, and and we are we start to realize that we need to be vulnerable in some areas, you know, and but until then, you know, what were you working on behind the scenes? Mentally that um that was building that confidence like you you know you had a you had a blueprint from from high school, you know. How did that blueprint start to evolve, you know, being in the league where there's a lot more pressure? Um, but you still need to be, you still want to be behind the scenes where people don't really see that you're questioning yourself and uh you're you're being harder on yourself and it and and and but you go to practice and it doesn't show up, but it shows up uh in the game. So it had to be some work behind the scenes that you would that you would really focus on and really grow in that area.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Uh talking, talking to someone, man, it helps. I'm I'm not I'm not ashamed to say it. And and we we really need to debunk and just kind of just get rid of that uh that that stigma.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Uh hey, I got a therapist I'll talk to weekly, man, today. So so yeah, it's definitely uh I'm on track. So go ahead, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, no, uh as far as far as you know, especially black men, man, when uh so uh just this we we have to uh especially when you think about athletes and and football and all these you know um factors where it just becomes more and more and more less likely that you you're you're able to and you want to show vulnerability because we're seen as these um this high octane performers, gladiators, and and so you if if any cracks are in the armor, you know, we um less and you know less than, right? It it uh takes away maybe I don't know the the allure or some of the the magical whatever that that that you know is this shiny thing that people gravitate towards as far as athletes and entertainers is concerned, right? Superhero. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So so yeah, so if you if you you know if if you show Clark, if you show Clark Kent, it's just like you know, you just you know, you're just um you're like the rest of us. And but but the crazy thing about it is we're all we're all you know like that. And so I think that's that's more I think about it, and I even saying that, I think it's important for us to even show our kids as much as we you know want to be Superman, it's it's important for us to show them Clark Kent more than anything else. Because yes, we're all we're all we all go through things. We might all not go through the same experiences, but we all share the same feelings, right? And so, yeah, man, like I mean, I'm not afraid going back to my first few years and leave my first few um trial and errors, I was scared. I was I was I was scared to be great. I didn't think I I was good enough. I didn't think I deserved it. And so again, I I that that almost self-sabotage my career early on. And but talking to and having that uh support system, whether it's a professional, whether it's your wife, whether it's, I don't know, people who just have your best interest at heart. You know, you you you no matter who you are, man, sometimes we you know we need reminders ourselves of how uh you know just good we or special we are, how much we matter. And and and then that could just be all the confidence in the world that uh that you need to take on and just you know go outside, go outside in these worlds. And I guess the way I like to look at it is um uh slay, slay dragons. And it don't always have to be, you know, one big uh grandiose moment, you know, one one home run, right? It could just be one um one one one dragon at a time, you know what I'm saying? Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Well, I mean, I mean we we think about, you know, we uh as a society, we we we look at the success and it's like it's overnight, you know, and so but when you really dig down into it, there's so much work that goes into what success look like. And so when you think about that tough stretch and you're trying to figure it out, and you know you're you know you're fearful and all those different things, uh, what did that stretch really teach you about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

That's a good question. Uh it it taught me that um that I was willing to wait, willing to wait in the in the season. And just uh really really made me think about we just you know football, right? Sports, you think about seasons. And but life works the same way. You know, uh they're there's seasons, man. Sometimes it's uh it's winning seasons, sometimes it could be a losing season, sometimes it could be a uh waiting season. And so yeah, I experienced so many different seasons while playing so many experiences being retired now. And so uh so so yeah, man. So it's just understanding the kind of the kind of the kind of season that uh that you're in. And and um, I mean, and being grateful for for it all, you know, the uh the wins, the losses, the um the blood, the sweat, the tears, the pain, the gain. I mean, I mean great being grateful for it all, like the uh the the questions, the answers, um, I mean everything. Just being being grateful because it all it all goes into um the uh the higher higher purpose, I would say. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because nothing, nothing is ever wasted. No, no, no experience either, like I said, it's either um something something to build off or something to learn from. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Well, man, I think, man, thinking about this, is this is so amazing. You go through all these different pieces of your journey, and then you finally get your breakthrough and you finally you eventually step into that starting role. You know, what what was the things that that you were excited about, what changed for you and that that made you ready for uh the opportunity, not just to you know be a flash in the pan, but you, you know, again, like I said, you lead the league in interceptions. And so uh what was that shift?

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah, you well, you could definitely see uh a lot more confidence um exuded on the outside. You know, you walk into the facility with, but I was very intentional on like not nothing really changing because uh I'm I'm a kid where maybe this is uh also part of my journey where I'm appreciative of I never really had the the red carpet rolled out for me. And so I never kind of went in with any type of attitude, and then and this is nothing against anybody else. I'm just you know speaking for myself, you know, when it never went in with any kind of attitude or entitlement or or expectations. Um, and so man, I I wanted that to remain the same, to be the exact same person as well, to always show humility, you know, because uh yeah, I just and and and and again, well, same thing that I said earlier, where I was always the type of person where I might not always be the most demonstrative, you know, vocally, but I always want my actions and sometimes even inactions to uh to speak for me and then knowing and understanding I'm just I'm an example for the next person. I'm now being being a father or a husband, I'm an example for my kids. So no, no matter what, you know, what what we do, who we are, we never really want to, at least I never really want to tie my identity to any accolades or any um yeah, yeah, you know, any any any uh accomplishments, whatever kids mean because I mean those things are so um they can be taken away. They can be taken away at, especially when you think about football, they can be taken away like in a in a moment's notice. And so uh unfortunately, oftentimes with the with guys and athlete football players that you know, once that's gone, man, it's it's it's it's it's struggle. Sometimes it's hard. Yeah, it's hard, it's hard making uh making that next jump.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah. I mean, you I mean think about why it's so hard. You think about a doctor who spent all those years, you know, to become a doctor, and then all of a sudden there's an accident where they can't have surgery anymore. And so there's a there's a grieving process, and you know, but there's still you still have that foundation that you have to get back to. Uh but it's hard. It's hard. So for sure, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, um, oh, we we we better pop into a quick two-minute. Two-minute. Uh this two minutes just like an easy going into half time, some rapid fire questions here. So uh whatever pops to mind, let it rip. Okay. All right. Um give me the um first question. Uh give me a moment when everything clicked for you.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Uh 2009 was uh I was on just special teams guy, just trying to earn his bones. I had uh I had tied the record of most tackles, at least at that time in a in a Patriots game with five with uh with Larry Izzo. And that that took me into leading or leading the team and tackled, special teams tackles the rest of the season with 19 and only appearing in seven games.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

All right. I like that. I like that. Um a quarterback you picked off that meant the most to you?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Uh does Tom Brady count for your teammate? Uh you we got we give you Tom Brady. Yeah, we got Tom Brady already. Give me one more. Tony Romo. Tony Romo. I guess my my my wife is a Cowboys fan.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

And I don't even know if I said that, I'll say that out loud, but you know, it's something, it's nothing.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Um say less, say less.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

I'm still talking to someone about that, you know, to this day.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Oh man, that's awesome. Um uh a habit that helped you become a starter.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Uh work, determination, drive, uh like I said, just um getting getting better, you know, get getting better, getting like bigger, faster, stronger, just uh doing, doing, leaving no stone unturned, I guess would be the best way to uh to describe it.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, awesome. Um what do what do you think great corner see pre-snap that most don't?

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Um tendencies. Uh being students of the game help because not every, you know, people can watch film, but not everybody knows how to watch film. So once uh you know, once you really understand what you're looking for, and like in pre-snap read, pre-snap tendencies, like the game becomes more cerebral. And you don't even have to be the most athletic. You just everything just give you just enough as far as physical attributes, and you could be the most dominant you know, person out there on the field.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Yeah. All right. Um moment you had to trust your preparation. You know, you got a lot of a guy, I guess a guy like Random Moss, you know, is in practice. You know, he's an athletic stud, you know. Um so I'm sure you had to face a receiver where you just knew you just I just have to trust my preparation.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

I mean, that was week in, week out. I mean, I could say uh Calvin Johnson, I could say uh uh Antonio Brown, I could say before there was um before there was Cheetah, before there was Tyreek Hill, there was Mike Wallace. You know, we were speaking. Oh my gosh. And then when he went to Miami, you know, we we we saw him twice, you know, twice a year. So track track meet every single time. But uh so yes, you really had to get your mind right. Um not what two bags, two bags of IB pregame.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Them speed demons. Oh my god, I'm trying to tell you, bro. All right, last one for you. Something you learn from a mistake.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

I mean, that's that's an easy one, especially playing corner. Let it go. You gotta let it go by the next play. And that works it works the same in life. You know, you can't get it back. You can't uh since it's like a speed of arrow. Once it's gone, it's gone. It's uh you can't put the uh you can't put the uh the the toothpaste back in the two, you know, any anything like that. So all all you all you can do or all you can control is what you do next and how you respond.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Yeah, man, that's awesome. All right, we're gonna jump back in, man. I you know, I I want to jump into a little bit of a cultural standpoint, and from a cultural standpoint, you were in New England, and every, you know, everyone knows that New England um had a standard, just like Pittsburgh had a standard from a culture standpoint. Um you know, um being in New England, what was the what was a different standard? Why was it a different standard? And what stood out to you right away?

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Uh well our standard in New England was uh if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Are you referring to spy gate? I'm not gonna get you can edit that, right? But uh, so the standard, what stood out for you from a standard standpoint?

SPEAKER_00 34:11

No, uh I mean the um no one no one was above no one was above the team. And Bill didn't just uh he he he he didn't just preach that, he really um he really wore that on his uh on his hat sleeves. Uh but uh no seriously the matter it didn't matter if you were uh like a Tom Brady or Wes Wall. I mean any Morani Maws. Um I mean I think you want to say it was first first day Ocho Single got there on the team, and you know, you know, all called him out right, you know, read him a few rights. So it it really did matter who you were on the team, man. Um he wasn't wasn't afraid to um hold you accountable. And so yeah, and one thing, another thing Bill would pride himself on just as a culture, it would be uh two, it would be two pillars. I would say mental toughness and preparation.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Yeah, strong. You see it through and through. Um you know, coming into a new situation, you know, being with new teammates, you know, how hard is it to build trust with your new teammates? Um and and is it, you know, do you ever feel like they they trust you, you know, once you've kind of settled in?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Uh it's it's it's as tough as you make it, I guess, individually as well as collectively. Because I mean, I'm just you know, you see me just on this uh personality-wise, man. I'm just, you know, happy to go lucky, man. You know, life, yeah, you know, this thing that uh that we all all doing call life, man, it could be so so so hard at times, so short at times. I mean, you know, if we can have a little fun with it, why not, right? So uh so yeah, man, and and and just having that kind of fun on the field, off the field, you know, relationship chemistry with uh with the teammates. So we were very uh even intentional ourselves with doing this thing called DB night every every single every single week on uh on Tuesdays. So we will all hang out, you know, and then and and just growing that that bond, that familiarity, it uh it translates, man. It really does translate on the field too. You know, when we talk about just building that trust. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Well, I mean, I know again, I've never had to play on the island. You know, I was a center and I'm in the middle and I got help on both sides. Um, but I I assume, and I've seen enough of the game to know that you have to have a different mindset to play corner. You have to have different intangibles that show up to play corner, um, self-awareness and be self-critical in some areas and know. And so as a corner, you're on the island. You know, what is that, what does that that position teach you from a mental standpoint that you have you have to have to play that position at a high level?

SPEAKER_00 36:44

I would say self-mastery and even mastery of self. And so, so many different facets of it, if you could think about um even like emotional regulation, because uh, you know, especially when we talk about getting a conversation about everything going back to our kids, right? They they're the foundation of the next generation. And and then and it's it's it's it's one of those things where I just kind of alluded to earlier, where you can't and you don't want to necessarily react to a certain situation, you want to respond to because there is a difference, right? And so, yeah, and that just being able to um uh um you know hone those intangible skills and then go out there and just like it's it's just you gotta win your individual battle every single play. I mean, are you do you want to win them all? Yes, of course, we all do, we're all competitors, but sometimes, you know, it does it doesn't work like that. I have one um one coach who put it in a way to me where you know where where it's like, hey, sometimes gunfighters get shot, right? But we we're gonna we're gonna go out there, we're gonna keep swinging though. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Man, when you again when you watch the game, you watch other players. Um, I know you're focused on your position, but when you're watching other other corners, is it easy to tell a guy, um, is it easy to spot a guy who is who's able to bounce back versus the guys who um who don't?

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Absolutely. Uh, you know, and it's just one of those things where sometimes um like it's just you just can't coach. Just going going back to those intangibles, you know, when it when it comes to just ultimate confidence, people just exude confidence and just knowing that I necessarily wasn't one you know one of those kind of kind of kind of persons. And so, yeah, so for me, me knowing and understanding that, so that means I I really hadn't been intentional about starting fast. And and yeah, just starting fast and get uh um like like you know, just whatever, sticking my sticking my nose in and on the play, you know, on a tackle or whether, you know, or getting in the receiver space, jamming, jamming them up, or you know, just disrupting routes, just being being being as much of a dis disruptor I can out there on the field. But uh, but yeah, and then um so I mean every everybody's just built different, wire differently mentally. And so uh, but you know, one of one of the things that you just you just have to have at that position is is is confidence, or you, or you, but or you have to do what you can to work, you know, work towards it.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, I I think um when you start thinking about the the transition and um transition out of the league, and you've got such a uh such a great perspective on on life, but you also have the skill sets that is transferable. Um how was that transition for you? Um now that you retired, you you know, um gotta create your new routine, you know, you got to create your new process. You know, how was that how was that move and that transition for you and and not allowing that identity to be wrapped up in just football?

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Um I I think it was, I won't say it was easy. Um it was something just like anything, anything else, man, you you gotta work at, you gotta work towards. And for me, uh again, the people that I have her around me, no, or humble me. You know, I don't know any any I'm sure any husbands out there listening, you know, that are married, why as well humble you?

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Oh, quick with the quickness, with the quickness. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

So that that that didn't make it too too difficult. But uh, but no, in all in all seriousness, um really had to keep that, as you as you just said, man, you hit the nail on the head when it comes to keeping that uh that routine, that structure. And I always look at it, I think I referred to it um a little while back, making that second jump because a lot of our you know, as a professional athlete, your career ends, you know, in your 20s or your 30s, just so much life to still live. And and and and again, if you're still stuck on the things that you did do or were in the past, you're not, you know, you're you're not focusing or you're not putting your future or what that looks like front and center. And so I uh uh again for me personally, it was always just about how can I be a better version of myself today than I was yesterday. And and I don't know, um it's just about higher, higher purpose too. Again, so my wife, we do a lot, a lot of community work, we have our own nonprofit. Um, even when I the things that we do for-profit-wise, it's really it's really about making an impact. And so I think if if I'm just I I lead there, and then you know what follows follows. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

What's the name of your nonprofit? Just for anybody that's out there that want to support the Evolve Foundation.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

So uh, so yeah, again, we're all about youth and development, youth empowerment, and we serve in the pillars of physical health, mental health, STEM, steam, and advocacy and outreach.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Man, that's awesome, man. Um, check them out, check out this foundation. Um, if you if you have a heart for youth, you know, feel free to jump in and show your support any kind of way you can, uh, whether that's mentor, whether that's you know, financially, whatever it may be, man, because these kids need mentors, they need people um to to continue to help build that self-esteem. Because we're in an era where there's a lot that's happening on social media with the likes and you know the pressures of being, you know, something good because that's what they see on social. And so uh any help you guys have out there that wants to, you know, plug in and help support the youth, check my guy out. Um, well, I got a couple more questions for you, man, as we start to wrap this thing up. Um I'm always fascinated by people who who take the time to sit down and want to write a book. You know, um, I've been looking at writing this book, writing a book for the last year and a half now, and I, you know, I still haven't gotten through it, and then it's a process. Um, you wrote a book, uh a children's book called Piece It Together. What made you write that book?

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Um, you know, my wife and I, just understanding um, you know, the the demographic that we're we're trying to serve. I mean our community writ large as a whole, but definitely our our kids, uh, because it's not about just passing them the baton, but making sure we pass it to them in full stride. And so we always wrestle with the concept how do we leave this world a better place than we inherit it. And um, yes, I just I just had another one of those restless nights, and I I you know couldn't sleep. I was obsessed and with these uh with these words that were just kind of kind of coming to me and um formulating. And I just went um came down, came downstairs in this office, flipped up the old laptop, started jotting a few things down, and eventually evolved into this uh we see what I did there, right? Evolved, evolved into uh this judgment book. A great, a great uh publishing team I have behind me, my wife is as well, you know, to uh to to bounce ideas off of. And so yeah, we kind of even even in that sense was was the embodiment of the book, right? Pieced it together and the um the messaging that we we want the kids, which is anybody who raises to take away, is that um individually you can go fast, but together we can go far.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Yes, yes. Piece it together. There you go. Man, I love it. I love it, man. This is this has been awesome, man. I got a couple more questions for you. Um, and it's a reflective question. Uh if you had to go back and talk to that guy who that that version of that undrafted version of yourself, you know, what would you say to him?

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Don't quit. Keep going. Don't quit. Because there were there were definitely times where you know, you know, people just think, NFL, you got that, you got that shield on your back, or you represent that shield that it's all sunshine and rainbows. But man, you know, as an undrugged, as an undrafted free agent, small school, D1 double-A guy, no real expectations, uh, or just expected of you and from you. You when you go into training camp, man, you are every sense of the phrase, I guess, cannon fodder, right? They just throw you through the wolves, and it would just be some nights. I'm I'm waking up with my groin feeling like it's halfway off the bone, and I'm like, man, what what what what what are we doing? Like what am I doing right now, man? And so uh so yeah, man, I I don't know, but it was all it's it's it's all worth it. Um I kept kept grinding through, did what I had to do through that project, and that that means I had to stay, I had to miss meals, you know, to stay later, get extra treatment, and go right into meetings and you know, things like that. Whatever I had to do to uh to make it work, to stay on that field, I I I did. And so if I could like going back to uh saying to my um my my year one self, is again, you know, uh don't quit. Um like you're you're on the right track and it'll all it'll all work itself out. Man, that's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Well, man, as we land this plane, you know, my last question for you is Kyle, when you think about, you know, your journey, think about where you are now, you know, what are what are the several intangibles that has made you who you are today?

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Intangibles. Uh, I mean, a lot of the things we had already um already touched on. Uh I would say drive, I'll say self-motivated, um, I would say ambitious. Uh I would say even radical. You know, someone who someone who's not afraid to, you know, mess with the status quo. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Well, Kyle, man, that's awesome, man. I really appreciate you jumping on with me, sharing your story. This has been a fun podcast, and you definitely see the uh the confidence and the personality shining through, man. And and I wish you nothing but success and um you know with your foundation and and then raising your kids, man, because that's again, that's becomes a full-time job.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

I mean, all the wishes, hey, and you you can muster. You know, all the credits you can muster on that end, but I appreciate you with these with these kids.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Well, Kyle, man, this has been awesome, man. I appreciate you joining me on an Intension Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yes, sir. Anytime, man. Appreciate you again for having me. Dope conversation.