Intangible Podcast
Welcome to the Intangible Podcast. We sit with professional athletes, coaches and experts to uncover the intangible qualities that drive peak performance. Through our conversations we discover the strategies, mindset shifts, and hidden strengths that elevate athletes to new heights.
Intangible Podcast
Chris Copeland | "The X-Factor" Mindset
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Six years grinding overseas. Multiple country jumps. Undrafted in 2006. Chris Copeland could have walked away from basketball more times than he can count, but instead he became Belgian league MVP, signed with the New York Knicks in 2012, and earned the nickname The X-Factor over 171 plus NBA games with the Knicks, Pacers, and Bucks.
In this episode of Intangible Podcast, Chris sits down with former NFL center and host Chris Spencer to break down the mindset that took him from undrafted free agent to the NBA stage at Madison Square Garden. They get into the psychology degree that taught him people matter more than basketball, the mom who installed a no excuse mentality before he even knew what one was, and the night he proved to himself, not the world, that he belonged.
Chris also opens up about where real confidence comes from, what most people get wrong about perseverance, why he is grateful for every setback he calls divine timing, and the wisdom he wants to pass on to the next generation of athletes who think success means never losing.
If you are an athlete chasing a dream that feels far away, a parent raising a competitor, or anyone trying to build the mental resilience it takes to compete at a high level, this conversation is for you.
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Well, I'm excited to be back here on the Intangible Podcast and get a chance to sit down with Chris Copeland. Chris Copeland was a um a former NBA player, um known for his versatility, his persistence, uh, his shot making. Um, he also went to the University of Colorado um bowler, earned his degree in psych earned his degree in uh psychology. He um went undrafted in 2006. I mean, that was a year after I played in the NFL, went over to Europe, played over in Europe for uh six years, went to Belgium, became the league MVP in 2012. Um, and then he signed with the New York Knicks in 2012, finally was able to reach the NBA. Uh man, that's where the persistence comes from, brother. And uh and then got the nickname the X Factor. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's a cool nickname right there. Uh then went on to play for Indiana Pacers and then played for the Bucks. Um, appeared in over 171 NBA games. Um, Chris, welcome to the Intangible Podcast, my friend.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me, man. Appreciate it. Looking forward to our conversation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, uh, you know, this podcast called Intangible Podcast, but you know, what better intangible to start with with the intangibles of the comeback last night from the Knicks? I mean, the resiliency to to withstand that. I mean, being that you play for the Knicks, you know, who are you rooting for? Are you still rooting for those guys to pull it out? Or you think the um the Spurs being such a uh a young team got a chance to to come back and even this thing up?
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, goes without saying I am a I'm an I am a Knight. So, you know, once a Nick, always a Nick, uh is what what we say. But um I'm not only a Kick, you know, I'm I'm Jersey born, you know, um Tri-State understands that's that's our team. And um, so I'm always gonna be pulling for the Knicks. Uh I actually as a basketball fan, I'm embarrassed to say I'm I'm excited. I want to see I wanted to see like six, seven games because I just I like watching basketball. You know what I mean? And trending towards not that. Um but I wouldn't I wouldn't risk it with these Spurs. I mean, I don't want to give them no life. We want the Knicks to go ahead and get this done with. But I I'm enjoying the series. Every game has been entertaining. Um, but I'm definitely pulling for my Knicks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. You know how it goes though when you get get to these playoffs, and you know, if they come back and win one more and then win another and you're in game seven, then who knows what happened because now you're tight. Touche.
SPEAKER_01Touche. And I think again, I would prefer them to win. I'm just a I'm I honestly, me personally, I think Jalen Brunson in the game seven, I put all I bet the house on him. Very, you know, when it gets down to all the pressure on the line. Um, you know, I'm a I'm a big fan of his, Carl Anthony Towns in particular. A big, big salute to Kat. Um, we we've had a few conversations with a great guy. I'm really happy for his success and some others. But um, yeah, I'm I'm I wouldn't I wouldn't want him to get the seven as a Knicks fan, but as a basketball fan, I mean, what's better than NBA Finals, you know, seven games?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. I mean, what do you think that city is like right now? It's you know, it's been so long since the Knicks has been in this position. You know, uh well, better. What do you think that city's gonna do when they if they end up pulling this thing out, man? Like, and and and is a place that you want to be when that happens.
SPEAKER_01Look, it is what it is, we know, and I'm not even gonna go into uh I'm I'm happy for the people that um have been waiting a very long time for this. I pray for safety. I'll say that. Um say less. It's gonna be it's gonna be something to see. Um I've been getting, I got a couple, you know, people out there. Like again, I'm I'm a local really, so I get calls from like some really close friends being in the fray. It's it's it's gonna be something special for sure. But I'll I'll I'll sit this one up. I'm gonna go ahead and watch.
SPEAKER_00All right, all right. Well, well, I'm excited, man, because I just want more games. So uh, you know, uh as a Knicks fan, I know you don't want it to get to seven, but I'm rude for seven just so we just so we can get more basketball. So um well, awesome, man. Well, we're gonna jump into your story, man. When we start talking about, you know, intangibles and and and resilience and grit, persistent. Um, I mean, you're like one of the poster childs for, you know, you spent over six years overseas playing, you know, working your way through and trying to get to the NBA, um, or you know, and playing the game for the love of the game and being able to get the opportunity to get to the NBA. Um, what kept you believing that you can get there? You know, what was that thing that kept pushing you that most people would will move on from, that you you believe that you can get to to the big dance?
SPEAKER_01Um, I would say, and you know, keeping the the theme of the podcast, I think, you know, one of my craziest, uh best intangible was uh my insanity, my my belief, um, despite what it was looking like. Um and I I credit that uh to my family, you know, my mom and my brother who passed away. So um for me it was just about um keeping that mindset, keeping one foot in front of the other. I was very blessed to have very good friends around who also um fed me positivity, shout out to L and you know there are others. Um there are a lot of a lot of folks that you know uh believed in me when sometimes you don't believe in yourself. And uh I was very fortunate um uh to have a gray circle in a crazy mind state, quite frankly.
SPEAKER_00Because of the work that I do in psychology and technology, man, when I saw that you had your, you know, had your earned your degree in psychology, um, you know, it made me think, made me having this this this thought process of we look at when we we have to understand people so much more when you're on a team than you do in other areas of your life. Um, because we are counting on those people to do our jobs at a high level and do their job at a high level. You know, how how did you you know use your psychology degree to start thinking about how much more that you need to understand people than necessarily how much you need to understand basketball?
SPEAKER_01It's more it is more important. You see you hinting at it, and it's I also will say I'm also working on my masters as we speak. Um I'm one semester away um from getting my master's from Pepperdine's Co Waves. Um that's what's up. But um yeah, it's all about people. You know, um everything is all about people. If you think about it, like it's especially in our you know, our our sports, you know, you know, whether it be NFL or uh NBA, you know, you have your Jordans and your LeBrons and whatever, Kobe, whoever's your whoever's your guy. Um, but I'm sorry to say to burst, you know, any fan of anybody's nobody does it by themselves. Nobody Tom Brady, nah, you name it, whoever's your guy, team. You know, and and I think uh again, there's so many parallels in life and business. Um you know, you can't do it without the right circle, you can't do it without the right teammates, can't do it without the right staff, you can't do it without w without people. And I think um the psychology behind being successful is also, you know, if you're a leader, how do you keep people primed? How do you you know put people in position? How do you take people out of position? You know, that's where the coaching you know comes in a little bit. Um like, all right, this is this is gonna hurt the team, this is gonna hurt the group. You know, how do we make the right decisions to to bring our collective vision forward? Um so you know, it's all about people and and um management and trying to be intelligent about um uh navigating relationships, and and I think that's that's one of those keys to success on any team or business or anything of that nature.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man, it's the the the people aspect of it that that's the make or break, that's the chemistry, that's the the not chemistry and and and understanding how people operate and having someone who really truly understand the dynamic of people, man, that's the thing, those are some of the things that really set your team apart. And that's when you get into your New Englands and your your Spurs with championships and not the championships, your Chicago Bulls, and um and so I I always think it's fascinating when people want to study people, you know, and so um tells me a lot about tells me a lot about you. And so being that, you know, being a Jersey guy, um then ending up in Colorado where you know it's you know two different places, you know. Um what did it teach you about yourself? Being in Colorado, what did what did it actually teach you about yourself?
SPEAKER_01Um well before Colorado, I'll say I moved to Richmond, Virginia, then Colorado, and I'll say um what I took from that is that I can I can fit in in any environment. Um I'm I'm adaptable. Um and it's it's uh it's challenging to go to a new new place, and I needed that when it was time to go overseas and then you know, bounce around different places. So um it adds a certain comfort level uh to life's challenges. And I think when you know, all right, I'm going to new places, totally new people. I don't know anybody here, but I gotta go figure this out, fit in, try to stand out is what it was when you go to go to a new school for basketball. Um, you know, you you find ways to navigate those challenges. And um I think moving around young uh prepared me for what my future was.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and and in that, from a mindset standpoint, when you think back again, you go back to your early on childhood, you know, you know, what part of your mindset was really formulated that you can look at now and say, man, these are the this is the foundation that really that really springboard me into being able to go in into these different environments and and and actually succeed.
SPEAKER_01Shout out to my moms, man. Um find a way or make a way was the mindset. My mom always told me that when I was young, find a way or make a way. And um, she poisoned me with that. Now it's like, you know, we I gotta believe and I gotta figure it out. Like it is what it is. And uh, you know, shout out to my mom, it's my best friend, favorite person in the world. Um but yeah, that's that's what was instilled in me young. Um it was a pretty much a no-excuse mentality. It was uh um something that you know she and Bred in me gave to me, and um, I ran with it.
SPEAKER_00Man, moms are moms are the best, man. Moms are absolutely well well man, you you you have a good experience in Colorado. You end up leaving Colorado and then you feel you you find yourself chasing this dream overseas. Um, you know, how was how was that adjustment? You know, again, I know you've had a couple moves here and there, but now we're overseas and you know, completely different culture. And um, you know, I'm sure there's some little nuance in the game. You know, how was that for you when you made that move?
SPEAKER_01People was probably my biggest adjustment. Um all of a sudden you starting, like even when you're in America, you know, I moved from Jersey to VA, I still could call my homies in Jersey this and the third. I moved from Jersey, Jersey and VA to Colorado, I could still call homies in Jersey and VA now, blah, blah, blah, right? Now you go overseas and when you're awake, everybody asleep. It's totally different, you know, for most of the day. And uh the hours that they're awake, that you're probably in, you're probably in a gym, you know, doing practice or track or whatever you had to do. And now it's one of those places, again, if you played overseas ball, you know how cutthroat it is. It's like you have to, if I don't play well this week, this is like, you know, a lot of those teams, if you're not your league, you know, you you don't play well on Saturday, you could be gone by next Saturday that fast. You know, so they have your replacement there by Monday. Um, so you gotta be able to weather a lot of stuff. You really gotta grow up quick. There's no, there's no more coddling than it is, the job gotta get done. So uh I think I grew up overseas and it prepared me for coming back home.
SPEAKER_00Do you think back to the, you know, that time of, you know, being upset, being mad that you had to go back, you were still overseas, to now actually, you know, getting the opportunity, you get the get the opportunity you got, get that phone call. You know, do you reflect, you know, back to those times of how important that time was for your development, for your growth, and that that he was saying that, you know, it's coming, but these are the things I need you to do before you can get there.
SPEAKER_01I talk about with my mom all the time, uh, especially we got some new things we're working on. Um, divine timing. And uh the story of my life has been a lot, forget my language, but I say it directly is ass kicking. So I've got my ass kicked a lot. And um because of those life will do that to you. Yeah, because of those those moments, I've gotten stronger. Um, and I think uh each and every time, and I call it divine timing. It's like one of those things that without those, who would you be? You know? And um I see what God's doing every time. And in the moment, it's not fun, you know, when you get in those black eyes, right? And it's like uh what's going on here? And you look up and um but if you really reflect and you kept that mentality and you kept pushing towards whatever it was, you understand the learning, even if the thing you wanted isn't exactly what you got, right? Um, so for me it's it's really just about um divine timing, and I appreciate you know those ass kickings, quite frankly.
SPEAKER_00You just you just hit on this divine timing, um, you know, as divine timing has for you, you get this call and now you're you're in you're in the big dance, and not only in the big dance, you come in with, you know, as a force and you earn this nickname the X Factor, you know. Um what gave you that confidence? What was that thing that that gave you that swagger where you felt you felt like the game in this spotlight wasn't too big for you where you can actually come in and perform at a at a high level and not you know not meet the moment where it just and when the big lights come on and then you shrink?
SPEAKER_01It was. It was the light was the moment was big. It was I I like to, you know, I always think there's a kid out here watching or something, and I want to I want them to know the human aspect. And make no mistake, there's a lot of players, I won't say names, that also felt the moment, um playing in the garden, this, that, and the third. We humans, um, but you have to tap into that cocky, you have to tap into that um uh uh confidence that um you know, and um I remember, is it okay if I say one more curse word respectfully on you?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, you're good, you're good.
SPEAKER_01So uh, and I tell young guys because I do say this to young guys all the time, again two stories. One, um, shout out to Mike, my little brother, basically like he's like, I guys miss free throws. And I'm like, all right, listen, let me tell you, when you at the garden, that light is bright, and everybody, you looking at that sideline, and it's different. It's a different shot. It ain't what you was doing in the gym. It's very different, right? Number one. Uh so the second part of that I tell young guys all the time is fuck it. You gotta have, you gotta be able to say fuck it. You know what I mean? And um, who do you want to be? You know, I had I remember I was having an awful first game, my set my first summer league game, and I remember I caught a pass and I had a look and I swung it quick. In my head, I cursed myself out. It's like, bro, who are you? Like, what is this? Like, we not doing this. Like, and I made a promise to myself then. I was like, look, just me and my head, crazy, right? You know, and um I said, look, either they're gonna hate me or they're gonna love me, but they're gonna remember we're not going out like this. So we're gonna be aggressive. I remember driving, I probably had my eyes closed, man. And I just drove and I was like, we're going, we're going aggressive every time. I end up scoring. And then I was like, that's right, that's who we are. We're aggressive. We take shots, we don't, we don't do anything else. And that that kind of carried me. And you have your moments. I was really thankful. My first shot in the garden was, you know, J.R. Smith screamed at me, shoot it. You know what I mean? If I'm honest about that. Um, but then I had, you know, you have to, again, you have sometimes you have to remind yourself to be confident. You have to remind yourself. Um, for us thinkers, sometimes you you you start doubting it, you be you're human, you know, and sometimes it helps to have the right, that's why you want to have the right circle around you, the right people around you, um, to feed you good stuff. And you have to have that confidence no matter what. And I didn't need to hear JR anymore after that.
SPEAKER_00Well, you you have JR telling you to shoot the ball, you know. I so I know you remember, you know, that game, that moment where you realize, like, man, I belong here. I I belong.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that would be um Houston. I'll never forget that one. That's a fun, that's a really long story, but I'll sum it up. Like, I met Tracy Morgan very early pre preseason. Um, one of the gave me the I actually have to tell you that story. It's a fun story. So long story short, he asked me if I believe in dinosaurs. It's like, yeah, I believe in dinosaurs. He's like, you ever saw one? He's like, don't believe the hype. He said, when they say uh that you ain't, you know, doing well, you ain't shit, whatever, don't believe the hype. When they say you all world, don't believe the hype. You know what I mean? Stay locked in, right? I thought some of the greatest advice I ever heard. Long story short, fast forward. He's sitting courtside next to 50 Cent, who's one of my favorite artists of all time. And JR gets self-doubt, I'll say. And Mello wasn't playing, and I had a whole second half pretty much to myself, and I had 29 and a half. And um after the game, I was like, oh yeah, I can do this. I'm whatever you say to me, like I can compete. You can't say I can't compete. You know what I mean? So, and it's it's it's one of those moments where I think most of the time everybody's like, prove it to the world, and this then, the third. But most of the time, man, you're just proving it to yourself. Yourself, to yourself, man. That's that's what it is. Once you got, once you figure that out, and that's what it, that's what it's talking to yourself, all this, that's what all that becomes um the biggest part, is because it's it's always been you.
SPEAKER_00So what a cool moment though to drop to me, you know, have that story and then turn around and he's sitting there on courtside and you drop 29. I mean, what a cool story. Well, shoot, man, we're gonna jump in.
SPEAKER_01To me, but it was it was I remember exactly where they were sitting, and it was uh it was dope.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Highs and lows, man. How you how you find that balance? Find that balance. Well, man, we're gonna jump into a quick two minutes, just some rapid fire questions for you. So whatever comes to your mind, just just let it go. Uh, and there's gonna be a couple questions for you. Like, man, that's gonna be a hard one. That's gonna be a tough one. If you want to pass, you can. All right, here we go. Um, give me a teammate that has that that has pushed you and forced you to raise your your game over the years.
SPEAKER_01Honestly, my favorite teammate or my my teammate who pushes me to raise my game all the time is my mom. Uh, she's the most important member of my team. And no matter what it looks like, no matter what success I had, no matter what, um, you're supposed to do it this way. You know what I mean? And do it better. You need to be sharper about all types of stuff. So, yeah, my mom.
SPEAKER_00Challenge me. I love it. I love it. It's not my team. All right, um, I know you got some um some different lessons overseas, you know, but give me one of your favorite lessons that you learn with being uh playing overseas.
SPEAKER_01My coach Eve, shout out to Eve's Defrayne. Um, he gave me a lot. He's the guy say sent me to the NBA. And um he always told me success is not a destination, it's a it's a it's a journey and it's a life strategy. I'm messing the words up, but um in essence, it's it's not getting there, it's who you are. And he used to say, like, how you it's how you carry yourself, is what you eat, how much sleep you get, how disciplined are you, that's success, and that determines success, and it's not getting to a destination, it's how you live your life every day. So that's something I take from overseas.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna make you use your psychology brain here. When you think about confidence, where does confidence actually come from?
SPEAKER_01That's a great question. Um, confidence, usually the easy answer. It's obviously way more conf uh complex, but the easy answer is from um displayed success, I would say. Um you get your confidence from uh practice, right? That's the idea. Like so that's how you can find that display success. Like you get all right, can I make this shot? Well, let's see. How can I be confident in it if I've never seen it go in? Right. And it then comes delusion, right? So you have to have a certain level of see it go in. Um sometimes it's just the little steps, like, all right, let me get around the basket so I learn how to do this. Oh, I think I can make this. Let me let me go a little bit further. Let me go a little bit further. You gotta train yourself for those scenarios so when it when it matters, the confidence is something that you've known you can do through the work.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, love that. All right, what does most people misunderstand about perseverance?
SPEAKER_01That is even harder. I'm gonna leave it at that. That is even harder. Whatever you think it is, it's harder than that.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, last one for you. Last one for you. What are you most proud of?
SPEAKER_01Game one. Game one, uh, the first game I played in the NBA have a picture of me and my mom. Played about 30 seconds, didn't score. And I remember hugging my mom and we made it. You know, um, they couldn't say I wasn't an NBA player after that. No matter what, I wore a jersey up to stepped into an NBA game. And um, you know, I've had some moments, but nothing was more important than my first games than they.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, awesome. Great, man. Thank you for those. We're gonna jump back in. Some couple more questions before we kind of wrap this thing up. But when you think about how you separate yourself from people, you know, what what separates people who who who quit versus the people who continues to to put that grind in?
SPEAKER_01It's that crazy. Um, I I can't, you gotta have a little crazy to you. And it's not just the belief, right? The crazy is the work ethic. Like, we practice is over. So the whole world goes, practice is over. We worked hard today in practice, didn't we? Crazy guys, like somebody somewhere, me, I'm thinking somebody somewhere is still gone. And I gotta beat that guy. And I don't even know who he is, and I don't even know how hard he's working. I just know somebody else is not done with practice. So I'm not done with practice. Somebody else is doing two a days. So what do they what does those two a days look like? It ain't gonna be light. So when you talk about the overthinking, it's just like the the insanity in the work, the crazy, right? It's like you can't be, you know. I again I talked to I mentor uh quite a few young guys, and you know, that they'll ask like how many shots and this and the third, like it's thousand shots, 200, how many makes? I'm like more. Like there's no number until it hurts. You know what I mean? And that's that's the difference. It's like I mean, I think Muhammad Ali said he didn't start counting his abs until it hurts, or something like that. I heard that later.
SPEAKER_00It's it wouldn't take bare minute for this is this big lineman to both of us about 10. I'm like, ooh, that's starting to hurt.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, but that's that's you don't the normal people say three sets of ten or whatever, you know. Nah, you gotta have a to separate yourself. Yeah, you want what everybody doesn't get, you're gonna have to do something they won't do. So all that being said, like you gotta go somewhere different, and that's crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Man, you just you're so cerebral, man. I just um, you know, it makes me want to ask more deeper questions around things. And so the one that just kind of popped up in my head is you know, um, you know, as a as a uh elite player, how do you not tie your worth to to the outcomes? I mean, you know, because uh again, I'm asking because I was one of those guys where my worth was all tied into football at one point, and and and trying to unwind that was tough, you know, but uh eventually got there. And so I you know, I think about this conversation for younger athletes and you know, parents who are trying to share with their younger athletes. Here's somebody who's done it at a high level, you know, maybe you know, take a piece of their their advice. And so um, so I asked that question from that lens of, you know, as a young athlete who is trying to get to where we've gotten to, you know, someone who's done it, how do you, how do you not tie your, you know, your worth to that, you know, to those outcomes?
SPEAKER_01I got a lot of stories for this one. That's a great question. Very there's a lot of ways to attack that. But I'll say number one, the answer is it's it's just not, right? It's not your worth isn't your sport or anything. Um these are just things that we do. Um what we try we try to do is take the learnings, the lessons, the tools that we get from sport, school, whatever the thing that we're doing, and carry it into each mission. And our life is gonna have multiple missions, right? It could be one time I was a student, another time an athlete, then I became uh a businessman, father, all totally different missions. What do we learn?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Teamwork, communication, hard work, right? So these the thing is what we take from whatever the thing we're doing. That's why I say even when we're not successful, God then gave us some gifts if we can pay attention to what do we learn here, right? And that may not always pan out exactly, right? And the second part um I think of is bringing it back to God is the serenity prayer. And for me, um it's the wisdom to know the difference, is that part. And I challenge people to go look that up. It's the wisdom to know the difference between what you can control, what you can control and what you can't. And that for me is um how you separate yourself from the thing. Uh, know that you did the best that you can, and if it don't go your way, it wasn't for you. Um it's you know what I mean, and just being able to give yourself that peace. Um, so listen to uh go check out the Serenity Prayer for those uh who don't know what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man, it's good, man. And I guess in that same vein, how how have you reinvented yourself? You know, uh you've gone from player to coach to now a doctoral candidate. Um, you know, I mean, there's a lot of a lot of winding that goes on in those journeys, man. So how have you, you know, um what what has been those things that push you to keep re reinventing yourself?
SPEAKER_01Um it just comes back to God and my mom most times. Um I just feel like I have more work to do. I think God got me here to survive some crazy stuff in my life. I think God got me here for a reason to do some things, help some people, uh, maybe uh have some really big goals still. And the worst thing they could have done is let me get to the NBA because now I think it's possible. Um to do it again. Um, because I know what what it looked like for me was impossible. So um, you know, just remembering that I've been able to do the impossible before and um having faith in God first, my family, and the people around me um for the support that's necessary and trusting myself to to get up there and and shoot and uh say fuck it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Bro, I I you know, again, I the wisdom that you have, man, I know, and and I've been wrestling with this whole wisdom thing. Wisdom is not cheap. You know, wisdom, you have to go through a lot of things to gain the wisdom that that you gain. And so, you know, hearing your story, you know, tells me that you know you've you've you've earned a lot of this wisdom and it and it and it's it has come at a cost. Um, but now that wisdom that you have, you get to share, you get to share with others. And so when you think about these young athletes, these young athletes, you know, um what do you think, what do you think the young athletes miss, misunderstand about success? What what is success?
SPEAKER_01Um I wanna I'm gonna hold on to that for the second part. So what are they missing? I would say that one, it's okay to get your ass kicked sometimes, but make sure you learn from it. Um grow from it. Um I think this generation, a lot of ways, many generations if I'm honest. I hate to separate us, but um oftentimes human beings, I'll say. Um thinking, you know, it's you should never lose. Like, nah, what do we learn from it though? You know, um I'm I'm I lose every day. I'm you know, I get my butt kicked to this day, like, all right, and I grow from it. Um it's not about not losing, it's about you know what what do we take from these losses? We get back in our film session and do we grow? You know, I I like to say I I make mistakes all the time. I just don't make the same ones. I try not to, you know. So um, so all that being said, I would I would say that. Um it's something I think I would want young young folks to to know is like it's okay to it's okay to lose, it's okay to take an L here and there. Um, but then what? You know, um I think that's that's what's more most important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you gotta have the self-awareness to to learn and grow and not repeat the same mistake.
SPEAKER_01Um I want to say one more thing to to the wisdom. So uh in class, I got a shout out to Pepper Dyne. Uh doing our on I I have this async teacher or whatever, and the guy said, um, wisdom is not having all the answers, it's being able to ask great questions or something to that effect, right? So it's like, you know, none of us know everything. None of us got this whole thing figured out. Um it's one thing I learned becoming a coach all of a sudden. Like it's like I don't know everything, man. And even when you tell, and neither do these guys, I look left, right, up, down, and be I talk to NBA coaches that I've that coached me, and you get to talk not when you go to the other side and you're no longer a player. Right. We're all just humans, man. And it does it says two things. Like one, um humble yourself. It's okay. It's okay, you're not gonna get everything right. Um, but be willing to ask questions, number one. And two, don't also don't listen to all the naysayers, don't always listen to everything because everybody doesn't know. You know what I mean? So we're all just humans trying to figure this thing out. So, you know, don't listen to too much and forgive yourself when you get it wrong.
SPEAKER_00Man, I like it. Dropping nuggets over here, man. Uh dropping nuggets. Well, I got a couple more questions for you, man. The last the the last last two questions here. Um if you had to go back and talk to your younger self, you know, younger self, um 15, 16, 17 years old, what would you say to him?
SPEAKER_01Nothing at all. Nothing at all. I wouldn't change anything. I would just be like, I I would want, I won't want the path to I want the path to be the path. Um, because I understand the ass kickings that's coming to him. I don't want him to be too confident or too anything, or I'm happy with the path, feel very blessed. I wouldn't say anything at all to him, honestly.
SPEAKER_00Back to that wheel's done.
SPEAKER_01I'd love to watch it though.
SPEAKER_00Learning. All right, brother. Last one for you, man. When you think back to your career, you're thinking back to, you know, you know, uh growing up, going to Colorado, going overseas, getting to the NBA, and now uh coaching and to the work that you're doing now, you know, what are what are the intangibles that has made you who you are today?
SPEAKER_01Um the intangibles for me will be um number one, work ethic. Um again, doing more. Whatever that, whatever that threshold is, you don't stop. Um, you try to push yourself further than you did yesterday. Um I think the other intangible for me would be like again, my overthinking nature. Um again, we talked about maladaptive behavior, like depends on when it's good or bad. Uh thinking things through and always try to analyze it towards a positive and towards like how we're gonna grow from this. Um so those two things I think, you know, just being crazy in a positive way and just working your ass off, those are those will be the no matter what happens, just be resilient.
SPEAKER_00Chris, man, this has been inspiring. Um, man, I hope someone, anyone who's listened to this podcast, once it gets out, that they, you know, are able to take some of these nuggets that you've dropped and apply them to their life because you know, we all need someone who's gone through um, you know, gone through the shit and and gotten to the other side and and put the work in to get there uh with the work ethic, the persistence, the resilience uh that you have, man. And um, I I really appreciate you joining me on the tangible podcast and rune you on. Um shout out to to Pepper Dime, you know, when you're done, if you want to have you looking for a home, you know, team Q uh technology. We always looking for you know good psychologists to work alongside us, and especially guys who play the sport that can share their experience and and also share as the other side of the academic um nature of what psychology is. And so um I'm here for you, brother, rooting for you, man. Appreciate you joining me.
SPEAKER_01Appreciate you, boss. Thank you for having me.
