Beno Udrih | Are You Coachable by Every Coaching Style?

Most athletes say they're coachable. Beno Udrih has a question that will change the way you see yourself.

In this episode of the Intangible Podcast, two-time NBA champion, 13-year NBA veteran, and current G League head coach Beno Udrih sits down with host Chris Spencer to unpack the intangibles that took him from a small village in Slovenia all the way to back-to-back championships with the San Antonio Spurs.

Beno gets honest about what it actually means to be coachable — not just with the coach who talks your language, but with every coaching style you'll ever face. He opens up about the Spurs' culture, what it was like watching Pop go at Tim Duncan as a rookie, and why fundamentals are the single most underrated intangible in any sport. He also shares the exact player development system that helped make San Antonio a dynasty, what he looks for in players beyond talent when scouting, and the question he asks every player on his G League roster at the start of training camp.

From scrolling through a mock draft and not seeing his name, to winning two titles, to now chasing his goal of becoming the first European-born ex-NBA player to be an NBA head coach — Beno's story is about consistency, self-awareness, and what it really takes to stick at the highest level for over a decade.

If you've ever questioned whether you belong, struggled to adapt to a coaching style that isn't your preference, or wondered what separates players who last from those who don't — this episode is exactly what you need.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Well, man, I know you're busy though. I'm gonna jump in, but I want to make sure I'm saying your last name right. Ben O.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Okay. Yeah. Uudre. Udre. Okay. Yeah, Uudre, yeah. It's like Udre. My my wife makes it simpler. Like, you know, my wife was like, it's hard to say Udre. Like, I don't want people to try to say Udri, and then it's like Udric and Udra, and like whatever. So just let's just let's just be Uudre. So Udre.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Definitely easier. Yeah, exactly. So well, I'm I'm gonna jump in. All right, you ready for this? Yeah, thanks again.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

I just want to say thanks for having me, though.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, absolutely, man. Uh no, I appreciate you. And you know, Coach O speaks so highly of you, and uh, you know, he's been helping me out on some things with what we're building with my technology company. So when he he's like, Man, you gotta talk to my guy, my my guy Udre. And I was just like, All right, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Here we go. Welcome back to the Intangible Podcast. I'm excited to have an NBA guy. You know, we've all got all these football people, and you know, we've been in the the uh Olympics and all that. Now we start to get into some of these NBA players, and so I'm excited to have Ben O Udre on. Man, what a career you had! So excited to dive into your story. Welcome to the Intangent Podcast. But before we really jump in, I want to kind of give a little bit of highlight of you. Uh former NBA point guard from Sylvania, you were selected 28th overall in the NBA draft in 2024 and 2004. Man, good time is just like time flying like crazy uh by the St. Antonio Spurs. You're a two-time NBA champion in 2005, which was the year that I got drafted to Seattle, 2007 with the St. Antonio Spurs. You played 13 years in the NBA. Um, you played for multiple teams, um, the Spurs, the Kings, the Bucks, the Magics. Uh, a lot to dive into all the different teams you played for with the Knicks, the Grizzlies, the Heats, and the Pistons. Um, but you were known for your basketball IQ leadership. And man, you were, you know, I remember watching your pick and roll master, man. Um, and and then you're one of the early Savanian players to establish a long NBA career, man. And I'm pretty sure it's fun watching some of the guys that you've that, you know, been the guy that set the standard for a lot of guys coming over to the U.S. to play, um, play at this high level. Uh, now you are, you know, you went on to become assistant coach, you went on to become a player development for the Pelicans, um, and now, and then also a professional scout. And now you're the head coach, currently the head coach of the Wisconsin Hurt, uh, which is the G League for the Milwaukee Bucks. Welcome to the Intentional Podcast, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me. Really excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah. Well, man, before we dive in, I just I'd be remiss if I don't talk a little bit about, you know, just get your thoughts on, you know, with the Spurs being in the championship, you know, back at it again. You know, I know it was a tough game last night, but you know, just you know, do you do you root for that team? Um, you know, being that it's a team that drafted you, because I when I think about Seattle, that's the team that I really root for because they drafted me uh back in the day. So a lot of loyalty still lie there. So what what are your um your what do your loyalties lie when it comes to?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

I mean, like you said, the loyalty, the loyalty is there, definitely, yes. And uh, you know, but like unfortunately, I did play for both teams. You know, I played for the San Antonio Spurs and like a really short uh short time with the New York Knicks. Um and I yes, I would say I cheered for the San Antonio Spurs. Obviously, I wanted to be successful. They drafted me, they you know, craved the path for me to be an NBA. I mean, especially coming from that kind of organization. A lot of other teams uh have a little bit more respect for players coming from there, right? From that program. So that definitely craved a uh a little path for me, right? Going into the different teams. Uh, but I would say this like with the New York, you know, like playing there, playing against the Knicks. Um, I I just liked the fans in New York and and Philly. And I know you played in both cities, uh, the games, and I just feel like the fans are just they understand the game, you know, and they appreciate the uh teams playing hard, especially a home team. So like I feel like when I played in New York, like the home crowd would boo us if we did not play hard. Like it was not really about losing and or uh or winning as much, right? But like if you played hard, if you were just like not even trying to win, that's when they boo you. Same time, same thing in Philly, right? So I would say this yes, I um I'm cheering for the Spurs, but I do I do think that the New York Knicks fans deserve a championship.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

So it's been a long time. It's been a long time coming. It's been a long time, yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

So here they are in like you know, great first game, you know. So we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

All right. Well, well, man, I I'm I'm um I will say I'm a Spurs fan. I'm uh you know, I'm I'm on that bandwagon. You know, I got a chance to spend a lot of time with RC Buford when I retired from football. Um, got a chance to be around you know that organization in that way. And then also, uh, I'm not you were you there with Marilyn Adams, uh the um uh physio there?

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Uh uh no, I don't think so.

unknown 5:21

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Okay, she was my physio when I was coming after the league, and then she took a job with the Spurs, and so I think she's still there. And so I got a chance to be around that organization for a little while, and man, just the respect and the the knowledge that I learned from them as I was starting my entrepreneur career, uh, and and then having someone like RC been a mentor and you know speaking that wisdom. I mean, I just can't imagine being a player around that every day, you know. Oh yeah, yeah. The things that you guys that you guys got to share. I mean, and again, it's now for you it's carried over into coaching. And so um, so I'm cheering them all, man. I'm excited to see how this series turns turns out.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

So I mean, yeah, they like you said, their organization is just uh one of the best, I would say, just the way they do the the all the little stuff, you know, and like how they like you said, the respect that they show to just people, you know, not just like uh people that are famous, but just like it doesn't matter who you are, you know, and that's what I liked about the Spurs in my career. Like it doesn't matter what the jersey says in the back of your you know, shirt and on your back, like everybody was the the expectations from everybody was the same. You know, when you step on the court, it's the same. When you are of the court, it is the same. It doesn't matter. You gotta carry yourself the right way, you gotta come in, do the work and stuff like that, do the right thing, especially like the non-negotiables, you know, that every team has, or like all that stuff. It just it definitely, but I would say like uh being there to start my career in the NBA, you I always say it was a blessing and a curse. Because you know, I saw the organization that's successful, like you mentioned, winning two championships. So I'm my expectation is like every organization is like that.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, you know, like so.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

When you go somewhere else, you're like, okay, great, you know, like I'm going to a different team with a better opportunity to play, maybe. But like, you know, but the other stuff is the same. It's it was a rude awakening for myself. So yeah, it's uh it's it's you learn quick.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

So yeah, yes, I've been there, been there. Yeah, yeah. Well, Beno, we're gonna jump into your story, man. Um, you know, you've won, you've won, like we said, we you won championships, you've played with some of the most elite players throughout your career, you know, and now you're on this, this, this path of being a becoming a coach. You know, which version of Benno has been the hardest to become?

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Um, I would say coaching was uh coaching version was a it's harder. Um I always had a passion. Even when I was playing, I still I knew I wanted to coach, I just wanted to be close to the game and teach. Um, but yeah, when you have a player, you're kind of in this little bubble and you just kind of a focus on yourself. And you just, you know, you gotta come in and get the work done. And but yeah, coaching was definitely uh it's a harder path, you know. Uh I mean it's only if you if you look at it, you know, there's only like so again, I I just want to touch this. My goal, personal goal is to be the first European-born ex-NBA player to be a coach, head coach in NBA, right? But again, you only have 30 jobs in NBA, and you and with expansion, there's gonna potentially be two more jobs. That's 32, and then you only have 30 head coaching jobs in a G League, 31 with uh Mexico City. So that is 61 coach head coaching jobs right now in basketball, in you know, in a professional basketball. You have college now and stuff like that, but again, you know, me being from overseas, uh not going to college, like I I guess I gotta get an opportunity to be an assistant coach somewhere in college for me to get into that route, you know. So yeah, coaching has been harder.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Man, to be the first, that would be that'd be really cool. Really cool. And I love it. I just feel you claim that that's your goal. I love that, man.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

I mean, it's like I feel like it's that's what it's missing. You have some European coaches right now that are head coaches, but they did not play in the NBA, right? Like, right, and you know, just looking, yeah, just looking at the best in in the NBA right now. There's a lot of European players that are like one of the top players uh in the league. You know, like if you if you look for the last, I mean, obviously Shea Alexander is not an European, he's Canadian, but like the last what six years, six or five or six years, I think there has been uh international players that won um an MVP. MVP, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think that's something that's needed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Absolutely. Well, man, what I think about, you know, you played for 13 years, and I think about my teen year career and thinking about coaching and and being in the building all the time, day in and day out, you know. Um, you know, for you, what what what's that thing that keeps you coming back? It keeps you, you know, wanting to put more time and being around that building day in and day out.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Um I always been a person that just like even when I was playing, I just want to help. I just want to teach, you know, like like I always been team-oriented. Uh, you know, like that's how my mind just works because I know that like there's a rarely like you have to be a special person to be successful on your own. But even like let's say if you're an individual athlete, right? Let's say tennis, let's say cyclist, uh whatever you want to call it, like there's a team behind it that nobody, you know, those that they the intangibles, right? That nobody is kind of a seeing it, right? But like I've always been that person. How can we win together? It's like again, like in NBA, in NFL, like you have stars and superstars, the majority of players are role players, right? They're intangible, like you know, people don't like people might not not know anybody's name, but like you know, once with the playoffs comes, the little and it's you're in a series, one of those role players have one game, and that shifts the momentum, and you know, you win the series. So again, like, you know, that's something you know. I I try to do now as a coach, I try to do it as a player. I just want to teach, teach, teach the game and players not to have so many, oh, I wish moments that I had maybe in my career. You know, if they can have five less, you know, I think that gives them a better opportunity to be successful, you know, in their careers.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Well, and that's why I think the importance of, you know, again, there's coaches who don't play that does it at a high level. But it's a it's a it's an added benefit having a guy who played and also who can coach at a high level because you always will remember those moments and games where you're like, man, I wish I would have done that. And now being able to communicate that with another athlete and hope that he has fewer of those than you um is a is a really good position to be in as a as a coach. And I'm sure that that's that's that thing that drives you back into the building day in and day out. I'm gonna say every day.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

I just want to go in there and just help, and like I feel like I can relate to every, you know. I'm I would say why I want to be a coach because I see that I can be a very relatable, you know, person, you know, like so important to you. Yeah, like you said, like there's a lot of coaches that are very, very good coaches that did not play the game, right? On a level that we did. Yeah, they maybe went to college or play high school and stuff like that, and they have a very good work ethic and they're very organized, but that doesn't mean we can't do that either, you know. But like I think what we have as ex-players, uh, we have the relatability. We can relate to every player. Like, you know, like just personally, for me, I came in, I was a rookie, right? Like everybody that comes in the league knew they're rookies. Then I was a rotational player, I was a bench player, I was a starter, I was uh I was the free agent, I was cut, I was straight at I was, you know, you name it. That's who I was. You know what I mean? Then I was a vet, then I was like a you know, a glue uh type of player that you see a lot now around the league that's like older, but just trying to be kind of in the middle of coaching staff and you know, uh players, young players. So the the relatability that we have, like as ex-players, I think it's very important to have on any staff. Now, I'm not saying that's you know a head coaching job or whatever, but I think every staff should have that, you know, more of it, I would say. You know, there is some, but like I think more is important, you know. But I think it's good, good balance is always it's it's great. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Well, man, I want you to take me back to Slovenia. Like, you know, what did basketball look like for you growing up? And you know, the the different styles of what you get from the US and you know versus a European player, you know, what was you know, did you guys model your game out there the the the US or were you guys thinking about that? Or did you guys really didn't care about what the US was doing, just focus on yours? I mean so many pieces to that, I think you know, when you look at it from overseas.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

I mean, you're you're absolutely right. It's like uh it's so many pieces, and I feel uh back then, like the only NBA game I was able to see was uh um Seattle Supersonics. And when they had Deathless Shrimp, and we have a satellite TV, and we were getting some German, like it was a DSF sport, right? Like a German channel and Seattle Supersonic, those are the team that I watched the most, you know. Um, and you know, I couldn't really watch a lot of MEA, so yes, everybody knew Michael Jordan, and you know, so obviously Michael Jordan is one of my favorites, and we can go to that debate some other day, but he's the go.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Um there's no debate here, there's no debate here.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Um, but like my dad played kind of like a second division in Slovenia, so he he was a basketball player, so I was around, and then my brother played uh also during that time, and then I was trying different sports, you know, I was playing soccer, I was playing handball in Europe, it's pretty big, I was playing volleyball, um, and then like just nothing stuck, and like nothing was uh active enough, like you know, um uh to where I wanted it to be, I guess, you know. And then one time I came home and coach just invited me to come uh, my brother's coach invited me to come to his first. It was like I just like two times, like two times a week, just kind of like a camp. And then he moved me onto the team. And again, like I mentioned it earlier, like it's just you when you join to a team, it's basically a youth program of the main team that like plays, you know, that has senior team, and then you have just like under 20 and then under 18 and under 16 programs, and you practice every day working on the fundamentals, you know, passing, this like you know, little things, you know, traveling, cross steps, all the stuff. Like to be honest, like when you're when I was growing up in Europe, you know, when you have a jab step with the left and you're trying to go left with the same foot and lift the pivot foot, that's a travel, automatic travel back home. You know, here that's not a travel, right? Especially because you dribble the ball and you lift, nope, you can't do that. It's a cross step, or you gotta dribble the ball first and then go. So it's puts you in a little disadvantage as an offensive player because you can't, you know, explode as good. So so again, like I think when you come here to the States and now you can get an extra step, just I think it helps you, right? So because again, like it's it's back in Europe, it's like all the time we were uncomfortable. Like, you know, kind of like you know, just like play this uncomfortable way that like when it comes because I I remember like uh let's say go to Luka Dancic, like everybody was asking, like, oh, how Luca's gonna do. And I was like, Well, I mean, he's averaging 14 points in Europe. That's like 23 in NBA right now at that time, like, or 25. Like, so even Luca said it, like, you know, it's easier to score in an NBA than it is in Europe, and I completely agree with that, you know. So that's it.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

So how does that impact uh now it got has me thinking about how does that impact when you guys play in, you know, when US come over and play, you know, in Europe? Do the you do we play? I I don't know. Do we play your rules or do you play US rules?

SPEAKER_02 18:07

I mean it's hard. It's like it, you know, a lot of players from here, they went there and they failed, you know. They for whatever reason, you know, but then a lot of them are successful because they're athletes, they adjust, they, you know, like they they they want it, you know, and some players, you know, the ones that don't, you know, six don't have success as they thought they will in Europe, it's like just they you know, they're not coachable. Like, you know, because again, like I mean, it's just so many people here, so many different people in America because it's so big. Like, like I I said this year before training camp, is like I first ask all the players, do you think you're coachable? And everybody, you know, I say, Raise your hand, raise your hand if you're coachable. And they all raise a hand. I was like, Well, that's what I was expecting is gonna happen that you guys are gonna all raise a hand. And then I was like, Okay, now answer me this are you coachable by by every coaching style? Because on my staff, there was, you know, six different coaches. Now we all have the same vision, right? They all try to kind of uh teach my vision or whatever, right? Or the Bucks' vision at that time, right? Like so, but the thing is we all deliver it differently. We have we have different tone in our voice, we have a different mind. How are we gonna talk about certain things? So to think about it, it's not about the first little, you know, are you coachable? Of course, you're gonna say yes, right? But are you coachable by every coaching style? I think that's the important question that I think should be asked more. And then you can ask, like, hey, what coaching style do you prefer? You know, the the coaching style that somebody is stuff on you, that's some but uh always positive, you know, always you know, being somewhere in between. Like and I don't think that players here think about it about that specific thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah, and and how I think about coachability, um, I think about coachability in a way, you know, which I think is very unique to think about is every coaching style. You know, I think about it if you're self-aware enough of what like are you coachable in a way that fits where you can then fit into the different coaching styles? That's what I think we here in the US don't think a lot about is you know, what what is my coach? I'm coachable, but the one that I prefer, I'm not always gonna get. And so how do I train my coachability in a way that allows me to fit into the different coaching styles because there are so many different types of coaching styles. That's how I think about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Yeah, no, it's it's it's true. And again, like you know, like if you're self-aware, you said it. Like it's like a lot of players here, especially nowadays, I would say, more than it was, you know, in back in my era, right? But like I feel like now it's like it's all about the social media. Now it's all about like, oh, let me show that I'm working out, and you know, this with uh skills coaches, and you know, and again, that's all needed and it's important, right? But like you said, like yeah, but is that gonna fit into this, you know, coaching style that this coach is actually, you know, it's like no, it's actually fits whatever coach you want it to be, you know. But like so, if you're self-aware that you, you know, uh can do this and that and like can fit every any coaching style, and like you're accept to take a role, you know, that the team needs you at that time to do, like that's what I think players nowadays, or you know, I would not even say players, but like parents should try to teach you, you know what I mean? Because a lot of times, like you cannot blame a a 20 year old kid, you know, I mean for him. to be because again like I guess two parents don't have as much time anymore that they used to have you know with all this the work and it's the whole world you know the the way it's changing you know it's just it's hard and we just want to please our kids and I think it's at some point it's like too much.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yeah well and I and I think that's the thing is you know the I this generation have the answers to everything in what we lack in this in this generation is reps. At the end of the day you still have to get the reps at it. And so the self-awareness of you know what is your coaching your coaching style what do you like what do you prefer when you become self-aware around that now I have to train my composure because there may be a guy who yells more than a guy who doesn't and so if I train my composure then my coachability goes up. Now I have to look at okay what is my thinking style I have a guy who's super analytical but I'm a you know I'm one of those those kids who are you know I'm just instinctual and so if I'm self-aware of my instinctual nature and I'm working with a coach who's analytical then I have to then know how to tune in to the analytic side of things. So but still without taking away from my ability to be instinctual. And so those are the pieces I think that we are starting to now have to lean into more as we start looking at athletes and that's the thing that is that's going to start separating the the good from the great because they're able to be self-aware of those aspects of it because like you say there's all the trainers now teaching you speed and skills and all that but this is the one piece I think is has a lot of work to there's a lot of work to be done there.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

And so yeah there's like a lot of I think as the coach too I think that those are all I think necessary conversations to have with players. Yes you know I mean yeah like hey yeah what coaching style like what do you prefer and again like like that's a lot of time takes a lot of time to do that and you have to you know have time take time for that to those conversations to actually happen and I think it's gonna help the whole organization it helps the players it helps the other coaches as well just to know a little bit more on a deeper level level uh of who players are and who they want to be and how they see certain things you know so then you can and again it goes back to conversation it goes back to communication you know because again I always people ask me oh what do you think is really important in uh any kind of sports or organization it's like communication and communication is not just talking it's about listening as well right and we all we are all criminals of that of sometimes not listening you know enough or not you know hearing enough and all the stuff so yeah right I agree with you right yeah man don't don't get me on my soapbox about this I love this you know so I'm gonna go back man at what point from a you know um uh playing in and you know like you said you was playing a lot of different sports trying to figure out what was going to stick you know what at what point did the NBA start it stopped feeling like a dream and start feeling like man this is actually possible for me? Man that's a great question and you know I always tell this story like I I was maybe 14 13 14 I had like a friend that was visiting from a capital city to my small village that I grew up in and there where I was living um and because we were good friends uh through basketball and he came to visit my family and stayed stayed with us um I think for like a week and I had posters all over my room like NBA posters obviously right and I had like a dream team poster uh of uh 92 uh dream team uh you know so again we are watching we're going to bed and he's on one side and I on the one side of the room I'm on the other side of the room and just looking up and just like posters everywhere and he's like do you think we're ever gonna play in the NBA and I like I don't like he actually told me that once as a story because I didn't remember it but I was like just bluntly I don't know about you but I will and like you know but again that was a dream you know I mean like a a naive kid that doesn't I didn't even know what the path will how to get there or anything. You know at that time I didn't even have an agent you know um but yeah then just you know put my head down just continue to play continue to practice continue to put the work in I would say I had a great support system you know with the family and uh you know I had a one coach that saw something in me and like started working with me individually a lot. So you know like I feel like all these intangible things that you have to do to be successful you have to put the the work in I always call myself a sponge especially about basketball and like you know stuff. I just loved it so much. It's literally in my blood. So like I just was collecting all the information all the good the bad whatever it may be just you know and I I guess that's what prepared me to be a coach as well you know because I was just and then I was just filtering it out you know like once when it was in once once when I heard it I just started thinking about it you know oh that I don't know if that's is fit well for me or whatever you know so so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah make it work for yourself. Yeah well I mean now so you kind of go from that you know um you know being a sponge and then getting in and and poking at your brother about hey I'm gonna do it I don't know about you but I'm gonna make it yeah to the big dance and and now you sit in a position where you get drafted by the San Antonio Spurs um in in 2004.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

You know what was the first thing that hit you when you walked into that environment oh I mean just a little story before that I was like with an agent that did not have any partners in the United States. Like I don't think I would even go to the draft. I didn't even know that I as a European player you have to get you have to put your name in a draft uh you know before you turn 22. So at that time I'm 21 I change the agent and then the new agent has partner in the United States and he's like okay let's give it a shot try him out like let's try to get him to the States get him some workouts then see what happens you know I mean again I I was like okay first time in the United States you know I get to my uh uh agent in the United States to his apartment and he takes me to his um to his office shows me computer a mock draft on a computer I'm scrolling down and I'm trying to see if there's my name because he's like okay find your name and there's 60 draft picks right first round second round I'm scrolling I'm seeing okay I'm gonna see my name I don't see my name again like just naiveness of me thinking that like there's only 60 players or whatever you know I mean so again like just like and then at the end I was like okay my name is not here he's like okay so you do you you do your work you know showcase yourself to the best light you can and I'll do my work you know in a in the background trying to get you more workouts and stuff and get you seen and you know I done that I went out there played hard uh got to the Chicago pre-draft combine uh got an MVP there and then after that you know I just had a bunch of workouts and you know I was fortunate enough to be drafted by the San Antonios first yeah and uh that dream of a 14 13 year old kid you know actually did come true yeah man that's cool that's cool and and and not just you know again an organization that's known for taking players from you know who have become that the organization that you know really helps solidify athletes who are coming from overseas into the right environment and and you know you're around a guy like coach Popovich what made him so different as a coach you know um the coach of the Spurs but also to take a chance on to start taking chance on you know a Kia from from overseas you know he just had this um non-negotiables that everybody has to do does not matter who you are what your name says in the back of the jersey like that is what we do as an organization and then yes we had star players that had little room to to wiggle you know and to do to go on their own and like you know but like there was they were just they just knew how to find those guys that like role players that can fit in perfectly in their system and you know and that's what it took you know like and we knew again we knew we have enough talent like I was I always say this with this first like three years that I was there two years that we won a championship right like I never heard oh let's get to the playoffs our goal was championship and like it's it's great it's it's like that's how I always think like I don't like yes let's put a talented team together and that we know we're gonna you know make to the playoffs we don't even have to but let's focus and then again if we don't win a championship yes there's gonna be you know unhappiness and you're not gonna be success not a successful season but I'm okay with that but again like there is only one championship so why are we not competing for that? You know what I mean? So that's again like when you get to this playoff the talent most of the time wins unless there is you I mean you've seen it you know you've been around like if a major player goes down with an injury then you know the momentum changes and like the other team has a chance but like if you have talent if you have health you know most of the times in a series you're gonna win and you know in an NFL you don't have that right you have like one game and done in the playoffs right so again that's I think that's like most of the time like the NCAA has the same thing you know once when you go into March madness it's a one game and done and there is you know there's surprises and stuff like that but at the end of the day most of the time the teams that have more talent win those games you know it's ice stakes and all this stuff so I mean talent talent wins and the and the ones who have the ones who really win are the ones who have talent plus intangibles and you think about this exactly new in New England Patriots they had talent but they also had the intangibles and so when you when you have when you have both of those working for you man you become real unstoppable and I feel like that's what the Spurs had is is not just talent but guys who had the intangibles because of how how the organization built that structure and so yeah I mean like you said it you said it about the intangibles that like I'm just going to the Spurs like all the player development it was like very specific to a player like I don't remember me working on like a lot of you know like uh ball handling being flashy and you know it was very like okay this is what you're gonna roll you're gonna play a lot of pick and roll so we're gonna do a lot of player development pick and roll right then we're gonna do different kinds of shots out of the when you come off the pick and roll you have a regular shot then you have like a uh setback right then you have a pump fake like it was just very detailed and and every day every day so it became a habit right right so now when I got now when I got in the game like I have my move and I always say this to the players now listen create a move have a move right come out the pick a row I don't know what you're comfortable with do it then you know people watch you then they see okay you know okay this is his move now what you have to create is a counter move counter and then create a counter for a counter that's all you need yeah you cannot i i know that you don't have enough time in your day to watch all three of my moves in different areas you know I mean like you are know when it's coming and know when all three of them coming exactly so so yeah just like hey just keep it simple because I see a lot of times nowadays players have a lot of like a lot to their game you know a lot of game a lot of moves but they don't perfect it yeah and like that's what with the San Antonio Spurs what we had was the the details and then we had like a we were working on like certain offense for the first five months we I think we ran like two sets and then just kind of adding to that you know I mean and it's like we became really really good at that you know because like now a lot of teams you you're good at it but you're not great at it you know like or you're not really really good so I mean yeah it's San Antonio just like the way they did that and the way they're still doing it you know um yeah there's something there's something right that they're doing right absolutely absolutely now I you know we always have these welcome to the NFL moments you know welcome to foot the to the league you know when did you feel like you truly belong you know being a role player early on in your career you know when did that that feeling of like man I okay I got this thing I know I belong here I'll see I mean like you said like I felt like the way Spurs did it you know I came in there as a backup point guard you know that kind of a like you know showed me that I can you know I like I didn't have to go right away against one of the best players because you know you come off the bench you're playing against the bench players so you know the level goes down so you know I was like okay I can see that and then it helped me a lot you know being with the great players like Manu Ginobili like and you know Tim Duncan Tony Parker Brent Berry like just like you know Malik Rose like Bruce Bone Robert Ory you know Michael Finley like so like obviously those those are the players that make other other people player other people other teammates better so and you're just learning from them as well you know just like like I said I was a sponge I just wanted to learn I just want to I had like I was always the guy that like had questions as well and that's why I try to tell players now hey if you are curious about something or if you something don't know just ask a question don't be quiet because then I then I think you know it and then when you don't do it now I'm like oh how didn't you do that certain thing right like you I thought you know it right because you didn't ask so yeah but just like you know once first year went by and like you know that's what gave me a bit confidence obviously I was playing in the finals you know as a backup point guard and that gave me a confidence okay you know what like I I actually belong you know I mean I had a couple good games against starting players because like you know like injuries happen you get an opportunity to play a little bit more and just like the confidence that grew in me like during that first year I felt like okay yeah you you know what I do belong you know like and then continue to work you know like in on intangibles like during the summer and just getting better and better and better and more consistent. I think that's what it's a huge part about my game that I was I was very consistent. And you know that's what helped me uh stick in the league as well because you know I I I would I don't want to take any credit away from myself but like I think that there's like I see that there was a lot of talent coming to the league but they don't stick because they don't have the consistency.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

They don't have the you know the work ethic they don't have the you know the understanding of who they are like you said it earlier you know I mean so it takes a lot again it takes a lot to be to stick somewhere for a long time you know so absolutely absolutely well well man I I just think the the um that feeling of belonging once you get that feeling it it it's a hard it's a hard feeling to replace man so it is uh glad that happened happened to you early on and and and sometimes it takes guys several years to figure that out but once you once you get that feeling it's hard to replace it man so well we're gonna do a quick two-minute drill we're gonna do um you know just some rapid fire questions uh so whatever comes to the top of your head just let it rip all right first one for you give me one of the you know and again I know you play with a lot of guys but one of your your favorite teammates did you ever play with I don't want to upset anybody uh I would say that's what I say one of one of I'll say team Duncan I'll say Monoginobi Tony Bar just like the early stages like that so like just the way they carried themselves uh and again team Duncan just like set the most humble superstars I ever been around I would say yeah you know and again like you said there's so many like that I do want to mention you know like Chris Barge D Wade they were great as well they knew about that it takes a team to to win so you know I mean so just like it there's a lot a lot of players you know but yeah I would say team Duncan just because I remember one one story quick story and then we can go back to rapid questions um just like you know being a rookie being in that locker room and seeing how Pop was able to like go at Tim Duncan you know and the reaction of Tim Duncan was all right and then he did not say anything he did not pout about it like he was not upset about it he went on in a court and basically you know showed you know just like yeah yeah exactly so you know like I don't know if I can well use the word that Pop used but like I was like whoa he's like he's he's speaking to Tim Duncan like that like he didn't say he just needs to look at me and I'll do it you know it's like what is he gonna do to me yeah so yeah oh man I love that all right uh one coach that has changed how you see the game uh pop and then I think it's a Eric's posture that was like two and then a lot of yeah a lot a lot of teams that I played for you know so again very far hard question why you have those questions go ahead well I mean not not all of us play with so many legends and play with so many different you know you know players as legends and coaches as legends so you know uh you know you're just fortunate man hey it's uh cost of doing business when you you play at that level I hear you I hear you all right one of the toughest um players that you have you ever had to guard um I always say this is Steve Nash. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Yeah a lot of pick and rows shifty he knew who how you know to get to his spots like he was just super smart high IQ you know and it's like I would say like he was obviously on a different level like just but like yeah just very similar I like to play pick and roll I kind of try to to watch his game and try to implement what he does. But yeah just like the way he ran his teams he was just very hard you know like just a lot of pick and rolls uh ball gets back once he passes ball gets back to him and now you have to guard him like you know a lot of times now you can rest sometimes but not with him and then obviously Steph Curry Steph Curry was like the another one just never stop moving in uh one of the players that's been in great shape you know throughout the whole of his career so yeah just never can relax it's kind of a different but same as Steve Nash you know just never can relax all right last one for you um what lead what does leadership mean to you today uh what leadership means is you know is just uh it's to me it's like helping you know communicating uh leading men young men you know to be the best version of themselves um like you know on and off the court and like we talked about it that's that that is a very hard to thing to do because like there's so many other voices that they have in there you know from outside talking to them and like so I think that just that's what leadership means to me. Just like how and you know building relationships you know I mean with these players with coach with your coaches with you know just people in the organization like just yeah like that's and I that's what I think as as a coach as a head coach now like like that's the most important part is like not the X's and O's but just like the communication the leading the man like uh try to you know see what the certain player needs or needs to hear and like you know that's that's something that's like you know it's challenging but like I'm very excited about that I get an opportunity to do that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Yeah man that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Thanks for sharing those uh we jump back in um you know as we start to get closer wrapping up this this podcast but as I think about you know you as a player and now you as a coach you know you know how have your perspective changed sitting in the seat as as a head coach now oh yeah I mean I um I give coaching I'll say I'll give coaches a lot more credit you know I know that they do the work you know again like I was saying back to like when you're a player you're in that bubble you're enjoying you loving it you know you you you show up for practice you practice then you have plenty of time when coaches you know they are there all day every day trying to prep you trying to make you better and um you know just you know it's uh it's It's it's difficult, you know. It's like, but I again it I love it like because again, I love to help people, I love to help players be the best version they can be on and off the court. Obviously, like the what's had the intangibles, you know, like little things that like I think they need to understand. So, you know, just to teach those, it's uh, you know, it's amazing. So, yeah, coaching is tough.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

When you now are evaluating players, um what are you looking for beyond the talent? When I'm turning on the tape, you know, here's some things that I'm looking at. When I'm in the gym looking at looking at you and evaluating you, here's the things that I'm looking at because I think a lot of that is is falling by the the the is falling by the wayside because that's social media and you're only seeing the clips, the highlight, you know, throw out the highlights and then it's not thinking about make watching the whole things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Yeah, every shot goes in and stuff like that, right? Right, right. But I I mean, I just I don't know. I I know a lot of people probably do this, but like when I'm watching, let's say I go in the gym and I want watch young players play, I just try to pay attention to the instincts that they have, you know, and like the way they move, uh and there's the player that moves differently, obviously smooth, but different, you know. I mean, you can see I can see that, you know, like and again, like I don't, it doesn't take a lot, you know, and a lot of teams players don't even know that they have that yet, you know, because they're young. Um, but just like the way they move, like there's a certain play, one play that can they make, and it's like, oh, okay. Like, and again, like I remember there's one player from overseas that was at a combine, I think, uh in Chicago three years ago. Uh two years ago, two years ago, it doesn't matter really. But like he he drove to the right, middle, and then he kind of uh behind the back passed back to the uh he drove from 45 degrees, he drives middle and just picks up the ball and throws it off the dribble behind the back, direct pass to the corner. And that, and again, I I I go like okay, that's something Mano Ginobili will do. Yeah, right, you know, but again, like and you know, it's that was on a it's not this is not like hey, we're just hooping, we're just having fun. That was at the combine. He knew exactly that there's a lot of scouts out there, uh, you know, a lot of eyes on him. And you know, a lot of times the players like try to, you know, they yes, you go out there and you hoop, but like that is an instinct that he did. He saw see, he saw an opportunity, he just did it.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

He didn't, I don't think he practiced that, you know. I don't think he works on that pass. And there's like I was like, okay, I like him. Like and I and the thing is, I think I can, you know, help him, you know, I can help him to be a better player than he is today. You know what I mean? Right. So just like little stuff like that. Like, you know, how can if you play the right way, obviously the instincts, stuff like that. I mean, we can talk about this for a very long time. Uh but it's just like little, it's just little things like that that you can see that like, you know, obviously, like there's a lot of the these players on this level, they are all talented. You know what I mean? But they have something else, you know, that you can kind of uh point out to them if you do get a chance to work with them, you know, and then you know, tell them about them and uh tell them about what they did and what made you uh excited about coaching them, and then just you know, so they see that okay, you were actually watching me. It's not like you, you just I'm just here because of a random thing. No, you're here because we wanted you, because we were watching you, because we were scouting you, because we like the way you play and all the stuff. So you're just like little things that I just tried to see, and you know, yeah, yeah, and then I share stuff.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Well, I got two more for you, two more questions. The last one, I mean, the the the first of the of those two is when you you know think about your upbringing and you think back to you know um playing uh in the NBA, but also now coaching, you know, if you had to go back and talk to that younger self, which I know we have a hard time reflecting and thinking back to these these areas uh as athletes, as competitors, but if you had to go back and talk to your your 15, your 17-year-old self, what would you say to him?

SPEAKER_02 48:43

I would just uh say, like when you that if you have 30 minutes of your time, you know, because you have a lot of time when you once you're a professional athlete, you have a lot of time on your hands, right? Do 20 minutes or 30 minutes of extra, you know. Just go shoot free throws, just go dribble the ball, 30 minutes. I mean, it's not that much, right? You know what I mean? And you know it as a professional athlete, those 20 minutes, you do it every day, they start stacking up, and then you start separating. And right, that's what I would tell players, young players, if whoever is listening, you know, like do it because you want it, not because somebody is telling you to do it.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Right, right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 49:25

That the extra, the extra work. And it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be mentally draining, it doesn't have to be physically draining, but just do something. Something.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Yeah, no, I love that. All right, last one for you. We've talked a lot about intangibles. I want to know what were the intangibles that made you who you are throughout your career.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Um the intangibles that I worked on, I mean, they're just like a lot of fundamentals things, you know, a lot of boring things that I just worked on, you know, because of the support system, because of the who that my coach was. Um, you know, but I mean, there's so many intangibles now, thinking back, now that I'm uh at this age, thinking back that I wish I would know about and you know, do doing back then, uh, you know, eating right, you know, the habit, the little habits, you know, uh to focus on. Um, but to, yeah, I mean, that that was one thing, just like working on fundamentals. Fundamentals, I think it's uh it's a foundation uh of you know who you are, who am I today. So again, like those are I think that that's what helped me really be successful. It's prep prepared me and gave me the good foundation to be uh where I was, you know, during my career playing and now here. So I don't know if that's a good question, uh answer, but you know the reason why I ask that question is because we don't think about you know what are your intangibles, you know.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

We hear people say this, oh, this kid have good intangibles. And you know, Archie Manon said to me one time, you know, I know that you'll be a first-round draft pick once they see your intangibles. And I I all I thought about is oh yeah, I'm you know, I work hard, you know, I show up, but there are so many other intangibles that come along with who we are based on our foundation, based on where we come from, you know, communication, are you you know, are you an instinctual player? You know, are you resilient? Are you tough? Are you um you do you have grit? And so all those things that really build your foundation, it's important to really, in my mind, it's important to start to recognize those because those are the things that helps you make these transitions a lot smoother. It doesn't make it easy, yeah, but when you understand your intangibles, it makes your transition a lot easier. That's why I was saying when you talk about someone's uh intangibles around composure, you know, self-awareness of I need to work on my composure because I'm gonna deal with a lot of different coaches. So I can make sure if if I have good composure, that means that my coachability is gonna go way up because now I know how to handle a guy who yell, even if it's not my style, but I know how to deal with it. And so that's why I think those things are important because it it is the foundation that we carry over into different environments, and now you can just get more add more learning behaviors to it.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

So no, I agree. Like that little thing that you just said about being coachable, you know, like and somebody screaming. Like again, there's different coaching style. You need to understand that. But at the end of the day, you are there for a reason. That means that somebody liked you, you know, somebody liked what they saw, and you know, it all comes from love. I think just in human nature, it's to love, not to hate.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

You know what I mean? So just to understand that, and just understand that, like, I'm here to help you no matter how I do it, you know. And you know, that's I think that's important to understand. And then the other thing that I would mention too, like that just came to my mind, re I kind of a reminder myself, the little intangible that I think it's important for every athlete, work on your balance. That is like, yes, I I mean, just like, you know, that's one thing that, like, just like one specific detail about the athlete that they need to have all of them, it's the balance, you know. And like, absolutely, yeah. So that's one thing.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Well, Beno, man, I really appreciate you taking time. And uh, yeah, and I and for the audience, I'm gonna apologize to uh Beno because it's been an up and down, internet without, you know, we got people knocking at the door. And so uh I really appreciate your patience and um and also being able to stay engaged with this conversation, man. Love your story, love what you're doing. Um, we're here rooting you all, man. I really appreciate you joining me on the tangible podcast. Appreciate you for having me, man.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

Really appreciate it.